[mrgrieves]

Prince Arthur Street in Montreal has been closed to cars for a long time. The street mainly consists of bars and restaurants. People on this board just thinks of retail focused pedestrian streets but that really is not always the case.

Montreal's streets tend to have much less car traffic on them than Toronto's. I'd love to see it in TO, maybe if the waterfront ends up getting developed they will include pedestrian-only streets in the plans.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rue+P...d=YbBoHT0VEASWIlVL4kIGEQ&cbp=12,34.53,,0,3.86

 

[nfitz]

Here's an image of Hong Kong's night market, a pedestrian mall on Sai Yeung Choi Street.

If that's a pedestrian mall, why are is there a white dashed line down the middle of the road, and yellow strips on the side. Looks more like a road closure.

In fact, here's the same view in Google Streetview - http://maps.google.ca/maps?&hl=en&l...=NEVwMvSM9eHfQrh_S-k_ag&cbp=12,167.17,,0,7.24

Looks like a road to me - and an annoying one to cross with all those barriers.

 

[quicksilver]

If that's a pedestrian mall, why are is there a white dashed line down the middle of the road, and yellow strips on the side. Looks more like a road closure.

You can call it a road closure if you want to. It was closed in 2003, and stayed that way.

 

[nfitz]

You can call it a road closure if you want to. It was closed in 2003, and stayed that way.

Gosh, how old are the photos in Google Streetview for Hong Kong then? It was open then. Hmm ... googling suggests that it was shot in early 2009. I guess it reopened.

 

[adma]

I respectfully disagree. Here's an image of Hong Kong's night market, a pedestrian mall on Sai Yeung Choi Street.

Maybe I should have specified "within a North American context".

 

[junctionist]

Flexible pedestrian streets are a good alternative to pedestrian malls in that you get the versatility of closing streets to vehicles for whatever intervals work best from a planning perspective, but it's not necessarily a permanent closure. The street is essentially pedestrianized but still designed as part of the road network, so it can still be used as a regular street if unsuccessful as a 24/7 pedestrian zone. Municipal and delivery vehicles can still use such streets all the time. The closure to vehicles is achieved through collapsible bollards or even mere signage. Though some may think of pedestrian malls as part of the typical old city experience in Europe, many European cities have either a combination of pedestrian mall and flexible pedestrian streets or just flexible streets. It's a functional solution.

 

[MisterF]

Good point about European cities, juncionist. From what I've seen there delivery vehicles use pedestrian streets freely. Anybody who thnks pedestrian streets are "a relic of antiquated thinking" needs to travel outside North America. What is a relic of antiquated thinking though, is pedestrian streets to revive a dying downtown. The best pedestian streets already had significant foot traffic when they were closed to traffic. Obviously Toronto doesn't have as many potential spots as a typical city in Europe, but there are a handful at least.

Pedestrian streets don't have to be retail magnets to work well. London has countless connecting lanes and streets closed to traffic that are maybe a block long. A good example here in Toronto is Market Lane.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Buffalo's Main Street Transit Mall: Will auto traffic return to Main Street?

If you visit the downtown of Buffalo, its a dead zone 7/24 with most places empty.

At Noon, you can roll a bowling ball down the street and not hit anyone.

Go a block or 3 on either side of the mall, you have run down, empty buildings or plain lots.

If you don't have the employment, residential, business, shops, entertainment and etc in a mall area 7/20, its going to die.

The Buffalo mall was too wide in the first place and wider than Yonge St, as well being too long.

Having a block up to 5, depending on the distance between them, is all you need.

Most US Cities don't have many people living in the mall area in the first place nor close to it.

During our planning on Cherry St EA before going to the public, we looked at closing Cherry St to traffic between Mills and Front and was met with strong opposition from the City Traffic engineer for the study. All he saw was traffic and another through street not meeting the needs of the local community including the plan new development. Waterfronttoronto supported the idea, but was shot down by strong opposition from the city.

MARK and DRUM: I find it interesting that Buffalo has had little success with the
downtown Main Street Transit Mall (I believe that is its full name) that was built
in the 1980s to accompany the LRRT transit line to SUNY Buffalo campus...

I wonder exactly how auto traffic would be reintroduced to that mall knowing
that stations with high-level platforms are also along that surface route and
that having the LRRT service was supposed to enhance pedestrian traffic...

One thing I recall is that Buffalo has never had any serious Downtown parking
problem and that parking has not been costly in dollar amounts-it is cheap and
somewhat plentiful...

I was also wondering where to post the link to a webpage that I recently discovered
about Buffalo: www.buffalorising.com and it should contain more information on
this subject...

LI MIKE

 

[Tewder]

I'm not sure if Commercial Street in Provincetown would officially be considered a woonerf but if you've ever negotiated the thicket of cars, people and cyclists that share the narrow space you'd swear it was one... and it seems to work. The key is the slow speed of everything.

 

[junctionist]

The notion of flexible streets unlocks a lot of possibilities. These are possibilities not really exploited in North America, though New York planners caught on with the Times Square pedestrianization using street furniture that could easily be removed for flexibility in that sense. A committed change beyond the trial phase arguably has to involve significant design work, including paving such as precast concrete or stone blocks or slabs and sidewalks on the same level as the roadway without a curb. That way, enjoying the full space when it's pedestrianized is encouraged and feels more natural to pedestrians.

Willcocks Street at the U of T seems not to be very successful because of its legacy as a typical street. Its form is traditional asphalt roadway and concrete sidewalks, without any blurring of the lines of pedestrian and vehicular space. Unsurprisingly, most students walk on the crowded sidewalk, while the pedestrianized roadway seems quite underused by pedestrians. John Street, on the other hand, is being designed with the expectation of routine closures for events with a concrete paver roadway (hopefully not in a grey colour because then it won't be much different from ordinary concrete) and sidewalks potentially level with the roadway, though not yet scheduled pedestrianization. The flexible street may promote pedestrian activity towards full pedestrianization, though it starts with evenings or weekends.