[tayser]

Just back on catenary, you have me intrigued now steve.

This is a vid from South Yarra to Dandenong to highlight all the changes that have happened on this line (main S.E. Melbourne line), to summarise posts at the start of the thread: new train sets (bigger, more energy intensive), huge amount of level crossings (the elevated sections were done in first term of current government, the outer branches are going to be done in this term), vast upgrades to track (although as you can see at Caulfield it's still messy as hell) and catenary.

The train/vid is on the Frankston tracks from the start to Caulfield and moves over to the main Pakenham/Cranbourne/Dandenong tracks (he also gets the station names wrong in that first segment), but from Caulfield (10m14s) to Oakleigh (17m30s) that shows you the first new elevated section (level crossing removal project).

I only just noticed that there are new segments almost every 500-600m (well there's at least one change in the wires between each station) and compared to the old setup, the new catenary has three wires above the contact and carrier wires.... perhaps this is the alternative to double-wiring like in NSW?

 

[tayser]

Via reddit, it's anecdotal on the first day of ops, but over the long run, it'll be interesting to see more traffic impact data.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/btdspc

 

[steveintoronto]

^ There's a surprising amount of emphasis on 'redundancy' for the electric grid supply for the system. I'm unable to find an exact answer, will have to delve into some pretty steep engineering reports aimed at electronic techs like myself, but take note of this:

https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/default/files/combined_sydneymetronorthwest_willougby33kV_REF_20-10-2015-accessible.pdf?ext=.pdf

Here's a wild stab at what might be happening: Those "twinned" contact wires may be being fed (or eventually intended to be) from two separate sources. Without getting too technical, each feed, since it's DC, can be 'isolated' from the other with a 'blocking diode' (think a water backflow check valve) such that the panto doesn't 'short them together' but supply comes from the contact wire with the higher voltage. If that wire then 'sags' in voltage due to the load, the other wire is then available to also supply the load (voltage, depending on the diode stack, will be as close as .7V one source to the other) and so supply redundancy is achieved without 'isolated sections', and if one source fails, and the other wire is being fed from a separate grid main that isn't affected, the supply isn't interrupted.

That's pure surmise on my part at this time until I can find out exactly how they're doing this, but *some sort* of redundancy is at play, as the cheapest option would be to just use a much thicker contact wire.

This may also be why it's apparent in only outdoor locations, as that would be the environment most prone to overhead interruption.

No matter what's at play, it's highly intriguing! Any hints you can post from your local forums most appreciated.

Emphasis: The Sydney Metro Northwest requires two independent electrical supplies, one at each end of the Project. The design strategy for the Sydney Metro Northwest provides levels of redundancy (i.e. back-up power for the Project) within the electrical system so that a single fault does not disrupt train services no matter where it occurs within the system.

 

[tayser]

Victorian Premier alluding to something in today's budget (released in about an hour).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1132823812892872705

 

[steveintoronto]

I only just noticed that there are new segments almost every 500-600m (well there's at least one change in the wires between each station) and compared to the old setup, the new catenary has three wires above the contact and carrier wires.... perhaps this is the alternative to double-wiring like in NSW?

To search on this subject, I'm up against finding 'the right tags' as "catenary" is a regional expression. I find that problem searching on this subject on European examples. "OHE" (overhead electric) is common parlance in some jurisdictions. I am getting hits for "catenary" but not many for Oz.

This is genuinely intriguing, as there's definitely an emphasis on "redundancy" and I know instinctively the 'extra' overhead infrastructure is connected to that (what else could it possibly be in a new-build?) but I don't know *how* they're doing it technically.

If you could supply some links to these forums, it might help for me to learn the local lingo to assist narrowing down the search. All sorts of tech stuff is showing, but usually only on one search tag.

 

[steveintoronto]

@tayser : Found your comments here: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=483396&page=234 and from the vid linked in this string yesterday, a still shows the point in discussion:

OK...this is proving my surmise! The contact wires are being fed independently from their 'messenger' feed wires. I'm a bit uncomfortable with using the term "messenger" as it means something else in electronics, but it is used in electrical engineering, as per "three way switches" having "two messenger wires".

Whatever, redundancy is being achieved in this arrangement, no matter how it's sourced for power.

This might be 'new thinking' from Alstom, especially in lieu of ATO, or Ozzie engineers might have prior experience doing this due to OHE (or your local "OHW") showing a high failure rate in the past. Notably absent from this pic and what I was looking for last night watching the vid are adjacent feed and return wires, usually strung on the upper part of the masts. The tracks might be the return path, but it's usually highly problematic for signals and other issues.

Very curious...

 

[steveintoronto]

Not the news Tayser would wish:

A safety upgrade of Melbourne’s City Loop that was meant to cost $43 million has blown out to cost more than three times its original estimate, Monday’s state budget revealed.

And no work has been done on the Melbourne Underground Rail Loop upgrade project for months, after the company the government and Metro Trains appointed to do the work went broke.

Work sites adjacent to Parliament station and in the Flagstaff Gardens have sat dormant since late last year while Metro Trains and the government re-tenders the contract to complete the works.

In 2014, the Napthine state government announced it would spend $43 million to upgrade fire and emergency equipment within the City Loop.

It came after a 2011 Age investigation revealed that repeated warnings about problems within the loop from transport and safety experts had been ignored for a decade.
The government initially denied there were serious problems in the City Loop.
It only admitted that safety issues existed after a 2012 Ombudsman investigation harshly criticised the Department of Transport for failing to act.
Repair works were not funded until the 2014 budget, when $43 million was set aside to complete the works that year.

In 2016, two years after Labor first took office, then public transport minister Jacinta Allan announced that the project would cost $134 million. This was despite the scope of works not changing. The government has said this was due to the "market response" from builders bidding to do the works.
Now, with large parts of Parliament station and the Flagstaff gardens cordoned off since last year so construction could be carried out, repair work has ground to a halt. [...]

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...-budget-blowout-revealed-20190527-p51roz.html

But here's the upside to the State Budget:

[...]...the budget has factored in $5 billion for airport rail into the state's net debt, meaning the government plans to borrow the funds.
Last year, $50 million of state money was allocated to planning both airport rail and fast rail to Geelong.
A massive increase in state borrowing will help the government fulfil its ambitious transport construction agenda. Net debt will rise to fund the $15.8 billion North East Link and the $6.6 billion removal of 25 level crossings by 2025.
The Andrews government most forge ahead without generous funding top-ups promised by the federal Labor Party.

Former Labor leader Bill Shorten had promised $2 billion for the Metro Tunnel if the ALP won the election.
Mr Shorten had also pledged $10 billion for the suburban rail loop and $300 million for the project's business case.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...bitious-transport-agenda-20190527-p51rlk.html

The difference in approach between the socially more conservative by nature Oz Victorians and Ontario's reactionary Cons couldn't be more stark. The Victorians are investing in the future, even if it means borrowing. The OntCons? They like to say "no", and on almost anything, and then when they announce spending, it's a theory, not a fact.

 

[tayser]

The surprise from the budget was actually the $3.4bil in bringing more suburban line upgrades (they were known about, weren't expecting them to get started ASAP). $2.1bil is going to the Sunbury line to ready them for HCMTs (post metro tunnel opening) - includes accessibility upgrades at 8 of the 10 stations, new electrical system (like the new one built on the Dandenong line), they've brought forward duplicating the Cranbourne line which gets another $700mil and $600mil will be spent on removing more bottlenecks on the Hurstbridge line (this has been a long process over a decade now).

We also now have a figure on how much the 25 newly added level crossing removals are going to cost: $6.6 billion.

The three major election policy / "projects that need planning/reference design/business case development work" are the Melbourne Airport Rail Link, Suburban Rail Loop and Western Rail Plan and all their planning / money for the design and planning process is in the budget. Those projects will likely be financed through debt (the state government portion anyhow - they'll likely be some form of PPP) but it's not likely that they'll actually sell the IOUs for another year or two when they need to start paying the big bills (first next year or so it's the planning work: $100mil for Western Rail, $300mil for SRL and an undisclosed amount on MARL that's likely less than Western and it's been going since early last year).

There's also $200 mil for new rail services statewide and they didn't disclose which lines or what's happening but I suspect some lines will finally move to the 10 minute off peak / later running timetable....... crossing my fingers for that. (The Cranbourne and Hurstbridge lines have bottlenecks associated with higher frequencies and the money outlaid for infrastructure improvements would go hand in hand with increasing services when they're complete in 18 or so months).

 

[steveintoronto]

10 minute off peak / later running timetable

Oh man...that's deluxe plus compared to what we're getting which is...errr...ummm...nobody can figure that out actually.

 

[tayser]

Just on Hurstbridge, the first phase of the bottleneck removal was tied in with a level crossing removal and station rebuild at Rosanna, duplicating a small one-track segment that included a new short tunnel and bridge:

It was finished last year

The second phase will be duplicating this section of the line out in the north eastern hills: https://goo.gl/maps/riNRL3HidnMaLcQ89

 

[steveintoronto]

The second phase will be duplicating this section of the line out in the north eastern hills

This makes fascinating and meaningful comparison to Ontario's Metrolinx, which takes an eternity do projects exactly like the above. What's the time frame on this project? And was it cut and cover or was a shield pushed through there?

The Google View link very helpful, btw.

 

[tayser]

The level crossing removal project also retains its place as the most in your face (or in the face of voters) PT project in the city (however Melb Metro will probably overtake that as the TBMs are set to launch soon) simply because the entire metropolitan area is seeing change.

The original list had 50 level crossings and the ALP expanded it to 75 at the last election. This video below has 8, half of them are actually from the original list of 50, the other half is in the expanded list. Despite the price for the extra 25 level crossings totaling $6.6bil (see budget post above), they quite rightly not just focusing on the original list of 50 then moving on to the new 25, they're actively looking at ways at taking more out at once.

The main culprit on both lines here is Bell St which is a major east-west cross-town road in Melbourne's north - think Eglinton or Sheppard (the original focus of the level crossing removal project) but now it includes removing crossings on either side of Bell Street. Coburg and Preston have sizeable development pipelines (~20 multi-residential projects across both areas as of right now - and will probably have many more in the future).

 

[steveintoronto]

Further to above. Took a while to track this down (terrible pun unintended), including having to tip-toe through Facebook (I'm not a member, and had to wash my hands after to get the stickiness off), and lo and behold:

Darebin Rail Underpass
Tunnelling Solutions have recently completed the Darebin Rail Underpass (under Darebin and Hawdon Streets in Heidelberg, Melbourne) for the North East Program Alliance - which includes Lang O’Rourke, Fulton Hogan, Jacobs, Metro Trains Melbourne and Level Crossing Authority.
The construction of an adjacent tunnel next to the existing rail tunnel was provided as a Design and Construct solution for our client. Total length of the underpass is 70m.
Differing support types were used to address low cover and proximity to critical services including gas main, water main and various telecommunications. Support of works included a combination of steel ribs with shotcrete; spile bars; rock bolts; soil nails; and canopy tubes (DN300mm – 9 no. each 36m long).
Tunnel construction was completed on time with no disruption to the existing rail line and zero settlement recorded on surrounding roads.
The project team have done an exceptional job and must be recognised for this outstanding achievement. Read below what the Project Manager at North Eastern Program Alliance, Level Crossing had to say:

Tunnelling Solutions successfully completed the design and construction of a 70 metre tunnel for the North East Program Alliance. The works were carried out adjacent to a live railway and alongside an existing brick tunnel constructed in the early 1900’s. Their involvement within the early works of the project was invaluable resulting in a design which was constructible and optimised for the ground conditions at hand. The works involved a heading and benching methodology to minimise disturbance to the adjacent tunnel and jacking a series of ~300mm canopy tubes, each approximately 36m long, to enable the support of the crown of the tunnel directly underneath sensitive services such as gas and water. The works were carried out professionally and collaboratively throughout and I would gladly recommend Tunnelling Solutions for any future works.

- Con Anagnos, Project Manager

Completed Underpass adjacent Hurtsbridge line (during Occupation)

Butor excavating top heading of Underpass

Canopy Tube installation, South Portal

Akermann drill rig on canopy tube platform

Application of spray on waterproofing membrane

http://www.tunnellingsolutions.com.au/index.php/projects/projects/179-darebin-raod-underpass

More on this later, it really helps to know how this was done, how long it took, and how much it cost, as it relates almost exactly to the "401 tunnel" on the Georgetown Corridor here in Toronto, one of many projects taking forev....well, tell you when it's done...

Addendum: Question to @tayser: That tunnel is conspicuously large! Is the extra width to accommodate tow tracks, or one track and the trail using that RoW? I've been Googling on that point, but running out of tags to get results.

 

[tayser]

This makes fascinating and meaningful comparison to Ontario's Metrolinx, which takes an eternity do projects exactly like the above. What's the time frame on this project? And was it cut and cover or was a shield pushed through there?

The Google View link very helpful, btw.

It was a roadheader that dug the tunnel. Cut and cover seems to be a dirty word around these parts, it's all to do about the disruptive cost that government has shied away from. The Melbourne Metro Tunnel was supposed to be cut and cover on Swanston Street right in the heart of the city and it was one of the reasons why the previous Liberal government (2010-2014) shied away from the project. Labor went to the 2014 election to get it done and to minimise disruptive cost they went with roadheaders in the CBD too (TBMs will do the rest of the tunnelling). Only place I can think of where cut and cover is occuring is on the eastern portal for Melbourne Metro tunnel, there's a shutdown right now of the Sandringham line so they can get it done over the next few weeks.

The facebook page for the level crossing removal project has a stupidly good set up for each site, I forgot to add actually, part of the stage 1 Hurstbridge stuff had another level crossing removal at Grange Road which saw the line sunk under the road. Here's the Album for Hurstbridge Line Upgrade Phase 1: https://www.facebook.com/pg/levelcrossings/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1479678218773525 Here's the Album for Rosanna station (part of the Hurstbridge Upgrade phase 1): https://www.facebook.com/pg/levelcrossings/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1552107091530637

And here's the main page for all the Albums on the LXRA's (Level Crossing Removal Authority) facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pg/levelcrossings/photos/?tab=albums&ref=page_internal

 

[tayser]

$395 million AUD for the Hurstbridge Upgrade Phase 1 https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/contract-signed-hurstbridge-line-upgrade-to-start-soon/

That's tunnel + bridge and track duplication over 1km, a new station + level crossing removal at Rosanna (rail over road) and another level crossing removal at Grange Road (rail under road).

Re: addendum: it's single track - the existing tunnel is now the down track, the new tunnel is the up track (down = away from Melbourne, up = towards Melbourne).