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From Jamie Johnson of condos +

http://www.remaxcondosplus.com/blog/

Posted May 24.

My comments: U of T is trying to get a residence built so that part is not necessarily accurate. They are encountering local resistance from residents.

As well, supposedly as many people are living in 416 and travelling to 905 to work as the other way.

Vacancy rates have been low for years yet rents have not skyrocketed though recently they are modestly up. There has been little rent appreciation over the past 10 years despite pretty well 2% and below condo vacancies. The upward pressure in any event should be somewhat offset by the 48000 more condo units to come on line over the next 2-3 years even if investors finally realize that precon is overpriced.
Finally, I will anticipate the criticism that will be leveled saying that he sells condos in downtown TO and not Precon so it is in his interest to say what he does. That said, perhaps the comments if any can address the issues as opposed to his personal inherent bias if people feel that is the case.

Long term our condo resale market is in great shape. Granted the pre-construction market will have to reinvent itself but that’s another story for another day.

First off, transportation problems are great for our market. Traffic jams exist in rush hour coming into and out of the downtown core. While baby boomers endured years of commuting, the next generations will not. Many of the young people living downtown today work in the 905. But they are all looking for jobs (and are willing to take less pay) to work downtown. We had no new office buildings downtown for over 15 years. Now there are 15 completed and under construction. Smart companies have figured this out and are relocating downtown to where their future employees want to work.

Thanks to Mayor Ford, even our public transit is suffering. Hence many of these same employees will prefer to walk to work rather than risk streetcar follies. Another reinforcement of the condo lifestyle.

While everyone wants the detached and row house downtown, the limited supply is pushing prices out of reach for 95% of those who want to live downtown. So where will these people end up? Just look to other major cities for the answer.

Finally all the naysayers who say condo prices are going to crash and you should rent instead, need to ask themselves: where? There are no new apartments and our two downtown universities have stopped building residences. I guess the answer is condos. Rents right now are a bargain and with vacancy rates under 1%, there is only one way for rents to go –up!! And they will have to rise faster than condo prices to bring investors back into the condo market!!
 
From Andrew Lafleur:

I think this is a really insightful post.

I actually agree with him on both counts. Parking will go up in price.

However, I think there will be 2 markets re parking: Studios and 1 bedroom and possibly 1 bedroom/dens will not require the parking in many cases if they are near the subway.
2 bedrooms and up as Andrew suggests will probably have a car, despite Zip cars and other "rental car companies".

As an investor, I am still of the belief that renters will go for 1 bedroom or what they pass off as a 1 bedroom/den these days which to me is not 1 bedroom/den but more 1 bedroom and a nook for a desk and these will be rentable.

2 bedrooms will be for renters who go together as rent is cheaper for 2 in a 2 bedroom than for a 2- 1 bedrooms for 2 singles.

I actually believed this trend and hence my last purchase for possible rental was in fact a small 2 bedroom at 777 sq.ft. being built which suddenly is the size of a 3 bedroom.


http://www.truecondos.com/two-trends-to-watch-in-the-toronto-condo-market/

Two Trends to Watch in the Toronto Condo Market

May 25, 2012 | 4 Comments

There are two trends that condo buyers will want to keep an eye on in the next several years.
1. Disappearing Parking Spots.

There are now countless buildings downtown that are under construction that will have multiple-times more units than parking spots available. RCMI Condos by Tribute is actually being built with no parking spots at all. Mega towers like INDX and Massey that were both launched this year will have 600+ units each and only around 100 parking spots each. Only 1 out of every 6 or 7 units will have a parking spot! Compare this to buildings built even just 10 years ago where pretty much every unit came with a parking spot. Resale buyers today who need a parking spot area already feeling the pinch and are being restricted to a smaller and smaller portion of the overall condo marketplace.

Two things to take from this trend:

1. Consider buying a parking spot with your next investment condo. While it’s true that many downtowners are giving up on car ownership altogether, I find that those in the $100K+ income bracket still have cars and have no plans on getting rid of them.

2. Prices for parking spots have only one place to go: UP. The imbalance between units and parking spots being built today will result in very high prices in the near future. I could definitely foresee a parking spot in a non-luxury condo building go for $100K in the next 5 years.
2. Disappearing 2 bedroom Units.

Check out this chart from Realnet which shows the breakdown of the different unit types for new condos in the last 12 years:

This chart shows a dramatic change over the last 8 years in the suite mix of new condominiums. In 2004, 2 bedroom and 2 bedroom+den suites made up 49% of the market and 1 bedroom and 1 bedroom+den suites made up 42% of the market. Today, in 2012, the 2 bedroom share is 31% (down 18%) and the 1 bedroom share is 65% (up 23%).

The obvious takeaway from this trend is that 3-5 years from now we may have a serious shortage of 2 bedroom units in the city. This is particularly interesting if you are an investor: consider buying a 2 bedroom unit in pre-construction today because a shortage of this type of unit could cause rental rates (and prices) to rise quicker than for 1 bedroom units. Move-up buyers who want to stay in a condo will have fewer and fewer choices as well pushing up demand for larger suites in the resale market.

Questions or comments? I’d love to hear from you.

Tags: 1 bedroom condo, 2 bedroom condo, advice, INDX condos, Massey Tower Condos, Opinion, Parking Spots, RCMI condos, Realnet, shrinking condo sizes, toronto condo investments, Toronto condo market, Toronto Market Statistics, Tribute Communities
 
Interesting article on the psychology of bubbles

Why do we keep falling for economic bubbles – and will we ever learn?
Tim Kiladze
From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Published Saturday, May. 26, 2012 6:00AM EDT

The guessing game of how much Facebook would ultimately be worth started long before the social-networking behemoth officially announced that it would become a public company. In early 2011, when Goldman Sachs bought a small stake, there was word that the site could be worth $50-billion (U.S.). Then last June, less than six months later, news network CNBC upped the ante to 12 figures on air, dubbing the company America’s “$100-billion baby.”
The general public devoured the speculation – investors believed that because they and everyone they know use Facebook incessantly, it must be worth an exorbitant amount. When it made its initial public stock offering a week ago, its valuation lived up to the hype at $104-billion – only for the stock price to drop nearly 20 per cent after three days of trading. On Wednesday, angry investors launched a class-action lawsuit charging that Facebook and its underwriters made “false and misleading representations” before the initial offering.
Was this a bubble bursting, or at least showing signs of strain? Companies in the social-media business have been getting scooped up for jaw-dropping amounts, despite often-remote potentials for profit. (Facebook itself recently bought Instagram, a smartphone photo app with zero revenue, for $1-billion.)
For those who lived through the fallout of the last tech bubble, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, this looks very familiar: Barely a decade ago, irrational expectations of Silicon Valley ended up sending the U.S. economy into recession; investors got hosed when the Nasdaq, the main market for tech listings, lost more than three-quarters of its total value. It is mind-boggling that we are back here so soon.
Such behaviour seems all the more absurd when you look back at the plethora of bubbles in history: People have fallen for everything from Holland’s “tulip mania” in the 1600s to the vicious Japanese housing bubble in the 1980s and the North American one that burst in 2008. We’ve even succumbed to mini-bubbles of frenzied speculation around trivial things, such as the Beanie Baby toy bonanza of the late 1990s. If humans are supposed to be the most intelligent species on Earth, shouldn’t we have learned our lessons by now?
Apparently not. University of Virginia economist Charlie Holt ran an experiment that asked a group of subjects to buy and sell a fake asset, attempting to make the most profit. Previous runs of the test had often revealed bubble-like behaviour.
This time, though, smack in the middle of the simulation, one of the participants unexpectedly calculated the asset’s intrinsic value, based on its documented profits, and shouted it out. Mr. Holt assumed the experiment was doomed – surely everyone now would just buy and sell the asset at its true price.
But soon he saw something he could barely believe: Students started to buy at higher prices again; not long after, the person who had run the numbers started doing the same. Ultimately, they all traded based on what everyone else was doing, rather than what the numbers showed.
Experiments of this type are common in the school of behavioural economics. Butting heads with classical theory, these economists’ work is predicated on psychology and biology, not computer models.
While the field has been around for decades, its work is only now going mainstream, buoyed by technological advances that have allowed neurologists to study what happens to human brains in a bubble and adding scientific research to back up the behavioural economists’ theories.
Their message is simple: If we’re ever to avoid the “irrational exuberance” (in former U.S. Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan’s famous phrase) that accompanies economic bubbles, we’ll have to get a better handle not on market forces, but on our brains.
A fatal formula: envy, overconfidence and habit
At 85 years old, Vernon Smith is one of the grandfathers of behavioural economics. A Nobel Prize winner, he is renowned for toying with theories of irrationality as early as the 1960s, when it was practically unheard of to question the crux of classical economics – that the economy is composed of rational actors following their self-interest.
One of his experiments asked subjects to bid on an asset whose value dropped by the same amount in every round of the simulation – a scenario similar to what a mining firm experiences, because its value drops every time it digs another ounce of its resource out of the ground.
Because the simulation’s linear trend was so easy to decipher, the subjects should have picked up on it quickly. But they didn’t. Comically, they made themselves believe that they could unearth some hidden value, and continued to bid up.
For decades, experiments of this sort have clearly shown that the subjects do not act rationally, but it has always been hard to pinpoint why. Study after study has highlighted a set of dominating characteristics that drive our behaviour in bubbles: envy, overconfidence and a reliance on past performance as a predictor of future gains.
On a suburban street, for example, homeowners who see their neighbours sell their houses for big profits are bound to want the same thing – that’s envy. The neighbours who have cashed in suddenly feel invincible, making them think they can correctly time the market again – overconfidence.
And both groups, in awe of a seemingly never-ending rising market, develop a myopic focus on the recent gains, rather than looking at historical averages – reliance on past performance.
Other studies have pointed to the phenomenon of comfort in numbers: Walking down a street, a passerby is more likely to choose a restaurant that has people sitting in the window than one that is empty, even though the quieter one could have better food. In uncertain situations, humans follow the lead of others, and at the very core, this is what happens in bubbles: People react to what everyone else is doing.
Another factor is the nature of regret: When we cash out an investment, our minds automatically calculate how much we could have made, theoretically, if we had kept riding the bubble.
Neuroeconomic experiments have showed that in bull markets, this fear of regret convinces people that they should invest more and more.
As the neuroscience guru Jonah Lehrer puts it, when we look at our handsome profits from investing 50 per cent of our portfolio, we quickly start to imagine how much money we would have made if we’d invested everything.
Then there is the danger that our brains, which are typically quite good at pattern recognition, sometimes overreach and see patterns that are not really there. This may be part of what is happening during a bubble.
The more complex the idea, however, the harder it is to prove with absolutely certainty. Even the most sophisticated behavioural economists will admit that it is almost impossible to be sure something like the restaurant effect is at play in a bull market.
Still, there is one theory almost no one disputes – the difference between thinking fast and thinking slow.
These terms were coined by Daniel Kahneman, a renowned behavioural psychologist and Nobel laureate, and explored in his recent bestselling book, Thinking, Fast and Slow: The “fast” system for decision-making relies on instincts and emotions; the “slow” one is more deliberate and analytic, but requires conscious, taxing effort.
Because humans are constantly inundated with overwhelming amounts of information, our fast systems have learned to make split-second decisions based on similar situations in the past. For the most part, this works out fine. But the human brain comes complete with some glitches.
“That’s sort of a necessary consequence of having a system that can do all kinds of other smart things,” says Scott Huettel, co-director of the Center for Neuroeconomic Studies at Duke University.
For example, the moon always looks bigger when it’s closer to the horizon than it does when it’s high in the sky – we are fooled by the context, although the moon itself hasn’t changed size.
But investors are loath to admit that there are limits to their rational abilities. Like a person in an emotionally charged bad relationship, humans are not willing to let go, because we too often believe that we are the exception – that we can make it work.
Mr. Kahneman came up with a name for this phenomenon: inside and outside views. With an outside view, a bunch of different items can be categorized based on their shared properties. With an inside view, certain items within the category appear to have unique traits.
An example is offered by Colin Camerer, a California Institute of Technology professor often regarded as the most important behavioural economist to emerge since Mr. Kahneman: While any marriage has about a 50-per-cent chance of surviving, try telling that to a newly married couple – they’re sure to believe their union is the one that will last.
Research in this area has discovered that is it particularly difficulty to adopt an outside view when ego is involved, when a lot of time has passed or when the issue is a personal matter.
All those characteristics are at play in bubbles: Ego is almost always a factor; investing your own cash inherently makes a bubble a personal problem; and the further back the last bubble was, the harder it is to see similarities.
There is an old saying in psychology departments: “People often question their eyesight or vision, but not their judgment.”
It’s different every time
The fact that people get caught up in economic bubbles over and over again may seem like a critical flaw in human evolution. But the real problem is that no two bubbles are precisely the same.
“What people are really good at is learning about events that they experienced personally, over and over again,” says Dr. Huettel, the Duke neuroscientist. “You aren’t going to get snookered by the same person in poker many times in a row because you pick up on irregularities.”
While bubbles seem to share general characteristics, we convince ourselves of even the slightest differences. For instance, the current tech bubble can be rationalized because it is predicated on the proliferation of social media, not the growth of the Internet.
There is also a lot of evidence that the surge of testosterone traders experience during a speculative rush can cloud decision-making.
John Coates, a Canadian-born research fellow in neuroscience and finance at the University of Cambridge and a former trader at Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank, has run experiments on trading floors in the City of London.
“Once you start making above-average profits, as most people do during a bull market, you start getting this high,” he says. “I think it’s enough to pretty much squash memory” of previous bubbles.
His new book, The Hour Between Dog and Wolf, details these findings and ties them back to what the behavioural economists started studying years ago.
Prof. Coates admits that even he, someone equipped with a PhD in economics from Cambridge, has fallen victim to the testosterone highs. “I don’t think I ever would have hit on this if I hadn’t experienced it myself,” he says. “We have an unstable biology, and it’s very powerful.”
Yet there are people – even whole firms – who appear to effectively game these bubbles. At a recent luncheon, Prof. Holt, the University of Virginia behavioural economist, had a conversation with a successful hedge- fund manager who confided that he did not trade on companies’ long-term fundamentals.
Instead, he looked at the previous seven days of trading and read newspaper headlines and television talking points, going by the theory that economist Burton Malkiel espoused – that “a blindfolded chimp throwing darts at the Wall Street Journal” had a 50-per-cent chance of beating the market, because humans are so subject to their irrational psychology.
The question, then, is whether humans can control their urges. Prof. Holt himself admits that even after studying bubbles for decades, he ultimately bid on a $1.2-million house at the height of the U.S. housing bubble.
Luckily for him, he backed out at the last minute because his father, an engineer, caught some structural problems during an inspection.
Human biases are “so ingrained that just knowledge isn’t enough to overcome them,” Dr. Huettel says.
“From an evolutionary point of view,” says Caltech’s Prof. Camerer, controlling urges “basically isn’t something that any other species needed the capacity to do.” Add in the financial incentives on Bay Street and Wall Street, and we practically jump at bubbles.
For traders, “there’s no downside to rolling the dice,” Prof. Coates says. “Bubbles occur once every five years, but in the meantime you’ve pocketed four bonuses, and you don’t give them back.”
Can we game the system?
There certainly are individual exceptions. Prof. Holt chuckles when he recalls that behavioural-economics pioneer Vernon Smith had bought a beautiful penthouse apartment near George Mason University in Virginia. A few years after Prof. Holt visited it, he asked some George Mason researchers what happened to Prof. Smith’s apartment. They said he had sold it because he realized the market was getting too heated.
Where Prof. Holt had almost bought a million-dollar home at the height of the bubble, Prof. Smith had smartly sold into the rally.
Collectively, though, behavioural economists and their neuroeconomist colleagues have had trouble coming up with theories of how to curb speculation. Prof. Coates, for example, advocates government intervention in the aftermath of a bubble, but he doesn’t see how the government can step in when things are too hot.
In his research, he found that in a bear market, when asset prices are falling, cortisol – testosterone’s hormonal opposite – floods traders’ bodies and inhibits them from taking on any type of risk.
Under those conditions, he says, governments must step in and facilitate trading for a short period to stabilize the markets.
But when the market is too frothy, he says, it would be very hard for regulators to tell investors the fun was over: “It’s very difficult to take away the punch bowl.”
In absence of any surefire cure, however, the underlying consensus is that acknowledging the pervasive influence of irrationality would be a start.
Glancing at the bestseller lists, it would appear that this message has caught hold – books such as Thinking, Fast and Slow, Nudge and even Freakonomics have sold scads of copies. Yet the people who read them often assume that it is everyone else who is irrational.
Instead, like an alcoholic trying to get clean, the first step is for each of us natural bubble addicts to tame our egos and admit that we have a problem.
 
the one thing this article demonstrates is why we overshoot and so many are disregarding "fundamentals".

I guess those of us the past few years who have been awaiting a correction are thinking with the "slow pathways" referred to and have reflected long enough to appreciate the bubble. Of course, a rising tide floats all boats so so long as the "herd" thinks or fails to appreciate that the assets, in this case real estate and condos in particular, the slow pathway thinkers will be proven wrong.....until we will be right. However, it may be a shallow victory because we may have been out so long that the pendulum swing may not come back all the way though history teaches us that pendulums tend to overswing both in the positive and the negative.
 
From the star today:

http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/newsfe...standing-the-new-normal-in-the-housing-market

Understanding the new normal in the housing market
May 25, 2012

Comments on this story Comments(0)

George Carras
SPECIAL TO THE STAR

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It’s tough to appreciate a new condominium building without standing back from it to gain some perspective. It is equally as difficult to assess what’s happening in the new condominium market without having a similar kind of perspective.

There’s a lot of discussion about the GTA’s new condo market these days, and all that talk can be both healthy and dangerous.

The market does not exist in a vacuum; it is one part of a total new home market that serves the GTA’s rapidly growing population, guided by a provincial policy that is directing the region to grow up, not out.

Builder inventories are an important gauge used by industry professionals to assess the state of the new home market.

Remaining inventory is a measure of the total number of units left unsold at the end of each month in sales centres across the GTA, whether those units are in pre-construction, under construction, or built and unsold.

Lowrise projects are ground-oriented housing projects, like detached homes, semi-detached homes, townhomes and links. Highrise projects are more intensified residential developments, such as condo apartments, lofts and stacked townhomes.

On a monthly basis, RealNet — the official source of new home information for the Building Industry and Land Development Association (BILD) and the Toronto Real Estate Board (TREB) — researches every new home development in the GTA with more than 15 units, both lowrise and highrise.

As of March 31, RealNet’s Highrise Remaining Inventory — which measures the number of unsold units in the GTA — grew to a near record high of 18,369 units.

For a bit of perspective, note that while highrise inventories have returned to the near record high levels set in the fall of 2008, lowrise inventories during that same time period have plummeted by 61 per cent to a near record low of 6,302 units.

Over the long term, total remaining inventories in the GTA — the number of unsold highrise plus lowrise units — has normally been between 25,000 and 30,000 units. The rise in highrise inventories in March led to a 24,671 rise in total inventories.

This represents a new kind of normal for the GTA market. Ten years ago, while the total number of units in builder inventories was roughly the same as today, the composition of that inventory — that is, the types of homes available for consumers to choose from — has become dramatically different.

In March 2002, lowrise homes were the dominant form of new home offerings, representing 65 per cent of total builder inventory. In March 2012, while the GTA housing market is at roughly similar levels of total inventories, there has been a complete reversal in the dominant form of the inventory, with highrise options now representing 74 per cent of builder inventories.

There will always be housing cycles, but what the GTA market has been experiencing is a structural shift away from lowrise housing and toward highrise living. Recognizing that distinction is key for anyone aiming to understand this new normal.

George Carras is the president of RealNet Canada Inc. His column appears in New in Homes & Condos the last Saturday of every month. For more information, visit realnet.ca or follow on Twitter at @realnet_canada.

One thought about this article. It is true that the total inventory is not up. None the less, I am not sure that the needs of people will be serviced by all these condos vs. Townhomes and SFH's.

That said, one other thing not mentioned is that home ownership has gone from about 63% - 10 years ago or so to 70% now.

So I believe we have drawn in as much of the market that can afford and want housing into the market. Also, if interest rates do rise from the historical lows they are at, perhaps the %-age of home ownership will downward trend.
 
The 2.7% is the increase in the resale condo market in Toronto year on year according to data published.

Relating to your Precon comparison, I am not sure people are paying the developer price on assigments. So unless the project is ready, the developer virtually sold out, often the assignment price is somewhere between the purchase price and the developers current price.

My personal belief and for using the resale market increase is that if resale of what will be essentially new product in my example 5 years from now is $628 and not the anticipated increase the developers are trying to seek @650 to $800; I would suggest people will not be getting these amounts.

New product did go up the past 1, 2 and 3 years. My suggestion is Precon is hitting the wall and in fact the discounts in the form of incentives to realtors, free maintenance, free upgrades is how prices are remaining bolstered at present.


It's sold out and the developer price is a little higher then the number I used. But yeah your right the assignment price is usually lower. Although some buildings that are in the occupied stage may be at same price or higher. The benefit of seeing what your buying and being able to move in quickly. I'm in it for the long run anyway. I plan on renting it for at least 5 years after it's completed.

Precon is getting expensive but there still are some deals out there on investor grade units. You need to know how to look and have someone capable and experienced helping you. (most agents are not) I like the leverage that you get with investing in real estate. I know I'm on the hook for the full amount but if you calculate return based just on initial deposit the numbers are incredible. Also if you go in for the entire haul (25-30 years) you have a fully paid off place after that. Not a bad little retirement bonus :D
 
Last edited:
apom,
Please just remember leverage is a double edged sword. In a down market, your mortgage stays the same and if you have an 80% mortgage, every 5% drop cuts 25% of your equity. A 20% drop and you have no equity. 20% is not unheard of.
This is to a degree the same as buying stock on margin. If the stock goes up, you make double your profit if you are margined 2 to 1. If it goes down by 50%, you have lost all your equity.

I am "old" and cautious by nature. It is exactly the leverage that has paid off so handsomely the past 15 years in real estate because prices were going up. Unless you believe that will continue, I would personally dial back the risk.


That said, since you plan to rent it out anyhow, you can decide what to do when you get it and you see what things are selling for.

If you know of Precon deals out there, I would love to hear what they are.
 
If you don't mind me saying, it is entirely foolish to hold a condo for more than 10 years. Perhaps with today's glass towers, more than 8 is quite a gamble.


I'm in it for the long run anyway. I plan on renting it for at least 5 years after it's completed.

Precon is getting expensive but there still are some deals out there on investor grade units. You need to know how to look and have someone capable and experienced helping you. (most agents are not) I like the leverage that you get with investing in real estate. I know I'm on the hook for the full amount but if you calculate return based just on initial deposit the numbers are incredible. Also if you go in for the entire haul (25-30 years) you have a fully paid off place after that. Not a bad little retirement bonus :D
 
^Agreed. Condos are like cars--after 4 years they're quite dated. Some of course will be future classics, but the majority will degrade into rental slums and/or maintenance nightmares with window wall failures, leaky roofs, flooding due to poorly installed plumbing, (increasingly likely dated electrical, cable etc connections), changing taste in kitchen and bathroom designs, skyrocketing maintenance fees, and much more.

Over 100 units in a building and it's really just a short term flip.
 
^^^^
I believe there is may be some potential flaws in the argument being put forth here.
It assumes a "never ending" supply of "new condos" and so many extras that people will have the choice to move out of these "dated condos" referred to.
If the location is good, the condo board good...yes it will not appreciate much after 5 years and far less than SFH's in all probablility. There will be maintenance issues, but the same may occur with houses though one can definitely ensure proper maintenance and the timing of the maintenance..
I can tell you that houses built during boom times by builders can have many of the same problems described in the condos though I agree SFH will always be a better investment. I recall when we bought our house in 1986 for $250K which was a lot of money back then, my neighbour went to use her jacuzzi bathtub the first night they moved in to end up with water flowing directly into the family room. Seems they "forgot to complete the drainage and sealed the floor before the plumbing was complete. Back then, with the building boom, if you could hold a hammer, you were considered a "finished carpenter". I hope the same is not happening now but probably in some buildings that is the case.

As to the condo example, I own a unit which was used by a family member for 17 years. The building is now I believe 35 years old. There are 200 units. Condo fees are about 60 cents/sq.ft. (only additional fee is electricity). There are people who have an interest to maintain the building. The board replaces members and the individuals who run on a 3 year rotation. These individuals are working or retired engineers, MBA's, accountants, property managers, legal council, and other business people as well as people who just have an interest but wish to contribute. Granted the average age is definitively older and not the 20-30 year olds who dominate a lot of downtown construction.
There is nothing for sale or rent for that matter at present and the most I have seen in the building has been 3 units for sale at any one time. Average size is 1500 sq.ft. About 7% of the building is rental only.
The point is that though the suites are dated in some cases, many have been renovated, some a couple of times.

I would be more concerned about these buildings with 300-800 sq.ft. units which have a lot of units because then, especially with the newer buildings, they are effective rental accomodations, though not necessarily slums.

However, UD and ISYM, as the population ages, there will be a lot of people who elect not to keep their homes and will have to live somewhere.

ISYM you could comment better since you have more knowledge. I believe that both for new houses and condos the price usually peaks around 3-5 years and then the price escalation is that of the neighbourhood. There is a premium paid for getting the first 1-2 years of maturity, landscaping, finishing of the product behind you.

Granted given the Vancouver experience with "leaky condos" I hope we in Toronto do not experience the same thing.
 
Interested, here’s my rationale for not keeping a condo for more than stated.

When new, maintenance fees are at their lowest, in general as buildings age past 10 years the reserve fund is increased to meet the expensive issues on the horizon. 15 years later values appreciate substantially less than those of more recent age and the board is generally looking to refurbish lobbies, facades, parking etc., often resulting in either a huge fee increase or a special assessment and as you note, suites are infrequently updated which when resold do little to nothing to increase the building’s draw. Today’s buildings are chock full of expensive amenities that can only add to the expense.

My advocacy to owners is to sell the unit before being faced with the additional expense. Conversely, I like to put buyers, especially the downsizers into the older buildings that have been refurbished. They’re still paying a higher maintenance fee but lower price while the cost to refurbish has already been assumed by the past owner with the next round not slated for a number of years. What these buyers tend to do is update their units for far less than the cost of buying new while enjoying the updated building.

Of note too is that I’ve found downsizers less interested in pools, bowling alleys, hot tubs and such and have put clients in buildings that decided to close these as they found them too expensive to maintain in the face of being shunned by residents. Mississauga’s condos at Eglinton and Hurontario are good examples of huge fees for such aging amenities.

You’re right about good board management but take for example a couple of the older buildings at the corner of Wynford Drive and Concorde Place which have some massive suites, long term residents and superb management. They commanded top prices in TO when first erected but because of low turnover – outdated units and high maintenance fees, many of the original owners have actually lost on their capital outlay. Yet, as superb as the management is, owners were eventually forced to pay special assessments when fees weren’t raised enough, but suites when up for sale, draw retirees wanting significantly more than 1000sf and the flippers who know the past owners carried the burden of updating.

On the other side of the coin I never recommend buying into a new building until it is at least two years old.
 
From Andrew Lafleur:

I think this is a really insightful post.

I actually agree with him on both counts. Parking will go up in price.

However, I think there will be 2 markets re parking: Studios and 1 bedroom and possibly 1 bedroom/dens will not require the parking in many cases if they are near the subway.
2 bedrooms and up as Andrew suggests will probably have a car, despite Zip cars and other "rental car companies".

As an investor, I am still of the belief that renters will go for 1 bedroom or what they pass off as a 1 bedroom/den these days which to me is not 1 bedroom/den but more 1 bedroom and a nook for a desk and these will be rentable.

2 bedrooms will be for renters who go together as rent is cheaper for 2 in a 2 bedroom than for a 2- 1 bedrooms for 2 singles.

I actually believed this trend and hence my last purchase for possible rental was in fact a small 2 bedroom at 777 sq.ft. being built which suddenly is the size of a 3 bedroom.


http://www.truecondos.com/two-trends-to-watch-in-the-toronto-condo-market/

Two Trends to Watch in the Toronto Condo Market

May 25, 2012 | 4 Comments

There are two trends that condo buyers will want to keep an eye on in the next several years.
1. Disappearing Parking Spots.

There are now countless buildings downtown that are under construction that will have multiple-times more units than parking spots available. RCMI Condos by Tribute is actually being built with no parking spots at all. Mega towers like INDX and Massey that were both launched this year will have 600+ units each and only around 100 parking spots each. Only 1 out of every 6 or 7 units will have a parking spot! Compare this to buildings built even just 10 years ago where pretty much every unit came with a parking spot. Resale buyers today who need a parking spot area already feeling the pinch and are being restricted to a smaller and smaller portion of the overall condo marketplace.

Two things to take from this trend:

1. Consider buying a parking spot with your next investment condo. While it’s true that many downtowners are giving up on car ownership altogether, I find that those in the $100K+ income bracket still have cars and have no plans on getting rid of them.

2. Prices for parking spots have only one place to go: UP. The imbalance between units and parking spots being built today will result in very high prices in the near future. I could definitely foresee a parking spot in a non-luxury condo building go for $100K in the next 5 years.
2. Disappearing 2 bedroom Units.

Check out this chart from Realnet which shows the breakdown of the different unit types for new condos in the last 12 years:

This chart shows a dramatic change over the last 8 years in the suite mix of new condominiums. In 2004, 2 bedroom and 2 bedroom+den suites made up 49% of the market and 1 bedroom and 1 bedroom+den suites made up 42% of the market. Today, in 2012, the 2 bedroom share is 31% (down 18%) and the 1 bedroom share is 65% (up 23%).

The obvious takeaway from this trend is that 3-5 years from now we may have a serious shortage of 2 bedroom units in the city. This is particularly interesting if you are an investor: consider buying a 2 bedroom unit in pre-construction today because a shortage of this type of unit could cause rental rates (and prices) to rise quicker than for 1 bedroom units. Move-up buyers who want to stay in a condo will have fewer and fewer choices as well pushing up demand for larger suites in the resale market.

Questions or comments? I’d love to hear from you.

Tags: 1 bedroom condo, 2 bedroom condo, advice, INDX condos, Massey Tower Condos, Opinion, Parking Spots, RCMI condos, Realnet, shrinking condo sizes, toronto condo investments, Toronto condo market, Toronto Market Statistics, Tribute Communities

Nowadays, the 1+den has become the 2-bedroom of yesterday. People/children are living in converted dens to bedrooms without windows/natural light. It is literally living in a closet.

This really worries me as it forces families with children to move out of the city and find some townhouse/SFH way out to the boonies (i.e. Stouffville).

My take is now look at some older condos with 2+1 or 3 bedrooms. Families that are used to the city life-style but dont want to move to out to the boonies will be willing to pay a bit more. There is a limited stock of these 2+1/3 bedroom types, compared to all the new 1/1+1 units that you wont be in competition for.
 
If you bought a $100,000 house in 2008 and it was worth $177,000 in early 2014, but then nosedived back down to $100,000, you have actually lost $0 (forget inflation for now) overall. However, if you bought in early 2014 at $177,000 and it dropped to $100,000, then you have lost $77,000, or 43.5%.


A paper loss... is not so bad... unless.. when you bought that $100K house in 2008 (without a mortgage) and took out a home equity line of $120K based on the apprased value in early 2012... and spent that money putting a 20% down payment on an investment condo for $600,000... and then that house value then drops to $100K in 2014... and that investment condo also loses 40% by the end of 2014. Lucky... you're only underwater... because you haven't lost anything really until you sell. And you don't owe anything more than what you owed in 2012, if you're current on your mortgages... Hopefully, you don't lose you job or your ability to make those payments... because that an epic loss.
 
Interested, here’s my rationale for not keeping a condo for more than stated.

When new, maintenance fees are at their lowest, in general as buildings age past 10 years the reserve fund is increased to meet the expensive issues on the horizon. 15 years later values appreciate substantially less than those of more recent age and the board is generally looking to refurbish lobbies, facades, parking etc., often resulting in either a huge fee increase or a special assessment and as you note, suites are infrequently updated which when resold do little to nothing to increase the building’s draw. Today’s buildings are chock full of expensive amenities that can only add to the expense.

My advocacy to owners is to sell the unit before being faced with the additional expense. Conversely, I like to put buyers, especially the downsizers into the older buildings that have been refurbished. They’re still paying a higher maintenance fee but lower price while the cost to refurbish has already been assumed by the past owner with the next round not slated for a number of years. What these buyers tend to do is update their units for far less than the cost of buying new while enjoying the updated building.

Of note too is that I’ve found downsizers less interested in pools, bowling alleys, hot tubs and such and have put clients in buildings that decided to close these as they found them too expensive to maintain in the face of being shunned by residents. Mississauga’s condos at Eglinton and Hurontario are good examples of huge fees for such aging amenities.

You’re right about good board management but take for example a couple of the older buildings at the corner of Wynford Drive and Concorde Place which have some massive suites, long term residents and superb management. They commanded top prices in TO when first erected but because of low turnover – outdated units and high maintenance fees, many of the original owners have actually lost on their capital outlay. Yet, as superb as the management is, owners were eventually forced to pay special assessments when fees weren’t raised enough, but suites when up for sale, draw retirees wanting significantly more than 1000sf and the flippers who know the past owners carried the burden of updating.

On the other side of the coin I never recommend buying into a new building until it is at least two years old.


Great post ISYM.

I understand your rationale and thinking completely.

Incidentally, I agree there is not the appreciation but when talking about retirees moving to a condo, I don't think that the escalation in resale is the main driver. It is the "right building" they want to live in. I can tell you personally that I will be looking at where I want to live and if my heirs get a bit less, so be it. I think the psychology is very different. Older people are not so worried in my experience that there be all the amenities, granite countertops or stainless steel appliances though that may be changing. I believe they want a "friendly building" with adequate living space. I appreciate this will vary from individual to individual.
 
I appreciate that Interested, thank you.

No you're right the escalation isn't in many cases the main driver. Easy transit, pleasant neighbourhood for walking and amenities such as shopping and on par with location near the kids is the building, that is, they're quite willing to put an extra few miles between their kids and them for the right building and suite. Interesting no?
 

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