[GraphicMatt]

One way streets tend to hurt retail - look at development on Richmond/Adelaide through the core versus Queen/King. Anything that makes vehicle traffic move faster through these streets would hurt businesses.

If you want to run faster streetcars, what about express service on Richmond & Adelaide? You'd have to add some more track, but some of it is already in place.

 

[rbt]

Bathurst does run ALRV's, but only during the CNE.

Bathurst has ALRVs seemingly at random throughout the year, often 1 or 2 on weekends (like last Sunday).

 

[Fred.S]

I think a good case can be made for putting side-of-the-road one-way ROWs on Queen/Richmond/Adeleide/King, reconfigured as one-way streets, with larger sidewalks. A case that businesses and car-drivers may like. My rough logic is this...

Right now there are about 8 rush-hour lanes combined on each of the four streets. Reconfiguring the streets brings it down to 6, however I'm sure most drivers will agree that driving behind a streetcar can be a pain, and separating the two would probably smooth out traffic on those streets for both modes. As well, many of those rush-hour lanes get blocked anyway, and the lanes beside the ROW would not be as prone to random cars and couriers stopping.

Parking would be affected, as only one side of the street would have it, but most cars going downtown are in parking lots, and most of the people going to downtown businesses arrive there by transit or go straight from work. I'm speculating here a bit, but seeing as most of the traffic in the area is pedestrian, I find it hard to believe that a streetcar ROW and wider sidewalks (despite the one-way streets) would be seen as a detriment by businesses.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Are there any plans for a streetcar right-of-way on Bathurst Street south of Queen Street?

 

[golodhendil]

One way streets tend to hurt retail - look at development on Richmond/Adelaide through the core versus Queen/King. Anything that makes vehicle traffic move faster through these streets would hurt businesses.

So we are back to the same tired old debate about the myths of one-way streets killing retail. Why look at Richmond/Adelaide, with their backdoors and garage entrances, and not look at Bond St, Newbury St, Percival St, or Broadway? To quote myself from the John St. thread from a while back: "Whether a street is dead or alive with pedestrian activity depends only on whether the streetscape and storefronts are interesting. If there are stores and restaurants that attract people, you will have a bustling one-way street teeming with pedestrian life whether it is a two-lane street (like Newbury Street in Boston) or a five-lane superroad (like 5th Ave in Manhattan). If the retail or streetscape is unattractive, you will get dead streets even if it's a narrow, cozy two-way street. To believe that making a one-way street two-way will miraculously bring pedestrian activity to life is as absurd as believing that making a street one-way will turn it into a highway."

Or, as Hipster Duck put it more poetically:

Aaaargh. Torontoitis strikes again!
One thing that consistently aggravates me about Toronto is that we have this head-in-the-sand, ridiculously stubborn attitude that building a city properly can only be done a certain way. There are certain idiosyncracies, such as this belief that one way streets kill life, or that subways must be tunnelled at all cost, or that light rail must be on the surface, in the median and make driving as annoying as possible, that are basically dismissed as utter bullshit in larger, busier and more mature cities the world over. I don't know where these principles originate, but it casts such a spell on people like "the Adams" that they think that these "rules" must have been revealed to Moses himself on the slopes of Mount Sinai.

 

[kettal]

You've been hoping so desperately for somebody to diss one-ways so you could let that out.

 

[Fred.S]

A Bathurst ROW was proposed for the bridge reconstruction if I remember correctly. Does anyone have a link to any info relating to that project?

I think a ROW south of Queen would be an excellent idea.

 

[GraphicMatt]

So we are back to the same tired old debate about the myths of one-way streets killing retail. Why look at Richmond/Adelaide, with their backdoors and garage entrances, and not look at Bond St, Newbury St, Percival St, or Broadway? To quote myself from the John St. thread from a while back: "Whether a street is dead or alive with pedestrian activity depends only on whether the streetscape and storefronts are interesting. If there are stores and restaurants that attract people, you will have a bustling one-way street teeming with pedestrian life whether it is a two-lane street (like Newbury Street in Boston) or a five-lane superroad (like 5th Ave in Manhattan). If the retail or streetscape is unattractive, you will get dead streets even if it's a narrow, cozy two-way street. To believe that making a one-way street two-way will miraculously bring pedestrian activity to life is as absurd as believing that making a street one-way will turn it into a highway."

I don't deny that there are other factors that influence a street's success, but the fact remains that Queen and King are remarkably successful streets in their current format. That traffic - both transit and automobile - doesn't zoom through these areas is a feature, not a bug.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In the days before the subway, the BATHURST streetcar ran from St. Clair, down Bathurst Street to Adelaide Street, then east on Adelaide Street to church, before returning. The on-street loop had different configurations over the years. The Adelaide tracks were not used on regular service by the Bathurst streetcar after Adelaide Street became a one-way street.

The FORT streetcar ran from the Wolseley Loop (just north of Queen Street) down Bathurst Street, then west on Fleet Street to the Exhibition Loop. The Bathurst streetcar also used tracks on Front Street on occasion. See this link for more information.

 

[Hipster Duck]

There are one way streets where traffic doesn't zoom through that are just as successful as Queen or King (Cumberland in Yorkville is a good example, as is Augusta or Baldwin)

And there are one way streets where traffic does zoom through that are also just as successful (Front, between Yonge and Church, is not a wasteland nor is Wellington between the same two roads; St. Laurent and Ste. Catherine in Montreal, Boulevard St. Michel in Paris, and everythine else golodhendil mentioned are even better examples of this and many probably pack more pedestrian traffic onto their sidewalks than any street in Toronto).

At the same time, there are two way streets, right downtown, where the traffic does not zoom through, and have been zoned for commercial development that are largely zones of retail failure. Why has Gerrard between Jarvis and University failed to generate any retail experience beyond a Hooker Harvey's or a Panago?

 

[golodhendil]

You've been hoping so desperately for somebody to diss one-ways so you could let that out.

No, I wouldn't say desperate. Too bad you didn't take the bait though

I don't deny that there are other factors that influence a street's success, but the fact remains that Queen and King are remarkably successful streets in their current format. That traffic - both transit and automobile - doesn't zoom through these areas is a feature, not a bug.

The biggest fallacy is in assuming that one-way = traffic zooming through.

 

[M II A II R II K]

How about the Bathurst Streetcar go from Eglinton Station to Exhibition and also have a short turn route which terminates at St. Clair West. And plus that way the Bathurst Streetcar can be accessed from both stations.

 

[Rainforest]

How about the Bathurst Streetcar go from Eglinton Station to Exhibition and also have a short turn route which terminates at St. Clair West. And plus that way the Bathurst Streetcar can be accessed from both stations.

Underground, or in mixed traffic?

 

[SlickFranky]

How about the Bathurst Streetcar go from Eglinton Station to Exhibition and also have a short turn route which terminates at St. Clair West. And plus that way the Bathurst Streetcar can be accessed from both stations.

Extending to Eglinton seems somewhat unnecessary. Between the subway and LRT that area will be pretty well connected. The idea opening the thread was to make use of the tracks that are already in place, improving connectivity for minimal cost. The problem seems to be a shortage of streetcars, and possible issues with the hill north of Dupont.

 

[Jonny5]

A con of this scheme that I don't think has been brough up yet is getting from St. Clair Stn back south towards Bloor. On the existing track you have to continue west of Bathurst to Vaughan Road then turn south and go back east to Bathurst. The distance added is not great, but it could add quite a bit of time to the trip. Bathurst and Vaughan on St. Clair are two very congested intersections with multiple turn phases that make you cringe. There would have to be full transit priority in place so that both lines don't become bunched.