This is a big city. If peace and quiet are priorities, buying a condo in downtown Toronto is not a good decision.

Downtown offers the dynamism and electricity of a sea of humanity packed into a small area, subways, streetcars, clubs, restaurants, construction, etc. There is a trade off between this and noise. You can't have it both ways. Porter Airlines adds to the fabric of city life. Noisy? Yes, but city life is noisy. I didn't move to the city for tranquility. I moved here for the hustle and bustle. Airplanes are part of that.
 
And unlike nightclubs, Porter's planes are not flying and making noise at two in the morning.
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
I don't think that's a fair statement.
For years the island airport was mostly only used for small private crafts, helicopters and the like. David Miller probably won the election based on his pledge of stopping the building of a bridge to the island to halt expansion plus even at the federal level we were promised by the Conservatives that Toronto would gain control over the Port Authority's plans to expand the airport. I think it's fair to say that in the last 5+ years we who opposed the island airport (both existing and expansion plans) felt reasonably assured that in good time the airport would eventually cease to exist. That has not happened yet in fact thanks to clever lawyering it has only become busier. Given political promises, grassroots efforts to stop expansion and a majority of Torontonians who oppose the airport, I think it's fair to say that no one "choose" to live at the end of a runway when they bought a property at Harbourfront/Queens Quay area.
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I disagree.

It would be one thing if the federal government had announced that the airport would close, or would be limited to private planes and helicopters. Then perhaps a person would have been justified in purchasing a condo based on that decision.

But no such decision was ever made. The tirades of municipal politicians, who have no jurisdiction over the airport, and the comments of an opposition party, are not sufficient for someone to rely on when deciding to purchase a condo nearby. Absent a concrete decision by the feds to close or limit the airport, anyone who purchased ought to have understood the risk.
 
I live in HVE which is pretty close to the airport, and I cant hear the planes at all. My issue with the airport is not the noise it makes, but the missed opportunity for something beautiful and special on that strip of island.
 
I'd be more concerned about living next to a highway then an airport that uses turboprops. If residents were really concerned about noises, then they would band together and try to restrict loud motorcycles that like to cruise in the middle of a summer night. Even 25 stories up, you can hear one clearly coming from blocks away.
 
As bad, if not worse are teenage motorheads with souped-up cars with really loud subwoofers, and truckers using their engine brakes.

I am lucky, despite living near a major highway as well, that the noise isn't that bad. It was worse in Brampton.
 
The worst thing for me right now is the nightly construction occurring along the the railway lines west of union station. As far as the initial question regarding noise from aircraft landing at the airport I would say that you should embrace it as a part of where you live. The city is a noisy place and harbourfront condos aren't going to be worth any less because of the airport.
 
Thanks for all the comments. It is definately helping me in thinking about this issue.

I have another question (since you all have been generous with supplying your answers!) The question is.....If Porter expands to the point where you are sitting on the edge of the water and you can literally hear the rumbling of a plane engine 30 seconds of every minute....and during the time you are hearing the plane you cannot hear what a friend is saying to you (or they have to raise their voice substantially so that you can hear him), do you think that under this circumstance, residents of the waterfront will move out and real estate property values will fall? If not, why not?

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.
 
I doubt that will happen. For one, there's not enough demand between Toronto and the cities that Porter serves to ever have that much air traffic. For another, Porter can never become a huge airline using jet props. For another, if POrter ever does have larger planes, it will fly out of Pearson. And lastly, I doubt that the Island Airport has a capacity anywhere near 2 planes a minute.

If Porter lasts (and hopefully it does) then I'm sure it will get busier and that would be super. HOwever it can only grow to a point. Furthermore, I think that the the airport is the least of the waterfront's problems. The Toronto Islands are kind of dumpy as it is, and that has nothing to do with the airport. Same goes for much of the waterfront.
 
Getting a bit off-topic, I'm not sure I would call the Islands "dumpy". I think the Islands are a treasure of Toronto, perhaps not well-appreciated. There was a very good photo thread recently on this board.

Not being any aviation expert, but I doubt that the Island Airport can physically handle anywhere near the volume of traffic you are worrying about. In addition, there is a limit on the demand for the kind of shorter-haul commuter runs that they are offering. They will never offer flights to cities farther away, placing some kind of upper limit on their volume.
 
Chuck said:
I doubt that will happen. For one, there's not enough demand between Toronto and the cities that Porter serves to ever have that much air traffic. For another, Porter can never become a huge airline using jet props. For another, if POrter ever does have larger planes, it will fly out of Pearson. And lastly, I doubt that the Island Airport has a capacity anywhere near 2 planes a minute.

If Porter lasts (and hopefully it does) then I'm sure it will get busier and that would be super. HOwever it can only grow to a point. Furthermore, I think that the the airport is the least of the waterfront's problems. The Toronto Islands are kind of dumpy as it is, and that has nothing to do with the airport. Same goes for much of the waterfront.
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Porter has 20 planes on order. Delucci is on record for saying he wants to expand beyond 20 planes. The CEO says there is enough demand and he has ordered planes to fill it. If he eventually operates 30+ planes, you will hear the sound of planes taxiing for 20-30 seconds of every minute.
 
luvbrka said:
Porter has 20 planes on order. Delucci is on record for saying he wants to expand beyond 20 planes. The CEO says there is enough demand and he has ordered planes to fill it. If he eventually operates 30+ planes, you will hear the sound of planes taxiing for 20-30 seconds of every minute.
Click to expand...

So there goes what could be a tranquil, beautiful, rejuvenated waterfront to the front row of a busy, noisy, polluting airport. Not to mention the impact on the Toronto Islands, which attracts hundreds of thousands of people each season.
 
If he eventually operates 30+ planes, you will hear the sound of planes taxiing for 20-30 seconds of every minute.
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Remember that these planes will not all be in Toronto. The idea would be for Porter to be flying routes such as Ottawa to Montreal and the like. Not every plane would end up in Toronto. And operating that many aircraft remains a big if.
 
My Experience with Porter Airlines

I'm very glad to see this issue being discussed here.

On the May long weekend I decided to try out Porter Airlines and fly them to Montreal.

I left Saturday morning at 9am and returned Monday afternoon at around 4:30pm. Total cost was about $400.00

Here is what happened.

I left my downtown apartment, got on the subway, then took the Bathurst Street car to Lake Shore. (total travel time on TTC about 15 minutes).

I walked two blocks to the terminal and was warmly greeted by the Ferry operator who wisked me across to the main terminal before I even had a chance to enjoy the beautiful view and peaceful surroundings of the early morning on the lake. (total time about 5 minutes)

I was then greeted by four agents and had to choose which well dressed and smiling person I should check in with. (total check in time about 1 minute).

I then had to go through security and was welcomed (YES, WELCOMED) by security personnel that clearly were using logic and common sense. (What a concept!)

I then discovered a beautiful and very comfortable lounge and was told to help myself to whatever I might want from their well stocked kitchen: Shortbreak cookies, various specialty coffees, bottled water, a selection of daily newspapers.

It was just after 8am by now, and clearly I obviously didn't need to budget so much of my time. I could have left home much, much later.

We took off right on time and I have to tell you there is nothing quite like taking off from the island and seeing your cityscape in a whole new way.

I counted the seats and the plane was only about 40% full. It felt like a DC9 but with propellers. If I remember correctly, there were 64 seats in total. We were offered edible and substantial food and the employees were wonderful.

Reading this over, it kinda sounds like a big advertisement for them, but I can assure you I am in no way affiliated with Porter. It truly was the most enjoyable and hassle-free flight experience I have ever had in more than thirty years of flying. It just made sense.

That said, I did ruffle a few feathers with some friends who think flying out of the island airport is the beginning of the end.

I appreciate the concerns about pollution and noise on the harbourfront. (Although I still don't understand how no one had a problem with the jazz planes flying out of there.) (It's a true tragedy that Air Canada did not have the common sense to market that properly).

The way I see it, I did not drive my car to Pearson. I used the TTC. I flew in an apparently much more environmentally friendly plane. I had a great experience. My only problem with the whole thing was all of the pollution being spewed out of that silly ferry. (A tourist was on the ferry with me and couldn't grasp why on earth we didn't build a simple bridge).

So, UrbanTorontoites... besides the noise issues for lakeshore condo owners... isn't this what we want an urban toronto to be?
 
Casaguy,

You said, "So, UrbanTorontoites... besides the noise issues for lakeshore condo owners... isn't this what we want an urban toronto to be?"

It is not just noise issues for lakeshore condo owners. It is noise issues for anyone who wants to come and visit the harbourfront or Toronto Islands (residents or tourists.) I once heard that 14 million people visit the harbourfront each year. Actually, 95% of lakeshore condo owners do not hear the planes when inside their condos. For me, I face the airport directly (and would be the most affected by the noise inside my condo) and I can tell you that the sound is not that bad inside (when I open my window, it is bad though.) The noise issues relate to people that are outside (i.e. the 14 million people that visit each year.)
 
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