AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
People who shouldn't be holding a gun dying because of it is less sad to me than people who didn't hold one dying because he did - and here in Canada, there is absolutely no reason to be carrying one.
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- Thread starter BlackLivesMatterJeff
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People who shouldn't be holding a gun dying because of it is less sad to me than people who didn't hold one dying because he did - and here in Canada, there is absolutely no reason to be carrying one.
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ttk77
Senior Member
One side doesn't always have to be wrong for the other side to be right. It can be true that the police have the right to defend themselves and also true that the man in question didn't deserve to die.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Yes and no - if you publicly display a weapon in an urban area, it is hard to assume anything but the intent/potential intent to cause harm. Not necessarily an excuse to shoot on sight, of course, but it sets the bar very low for intervention of anything but the deadly kind.
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Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
Y'all are falling into a trap, IMHO, which is why we differ. You're assuming that this went down the way the police said it did. I'm assuming that it didn't. That's not to say they killed him in cold blood. Just that I no longer believe the police are neutral arbiters.
ttk77
Senior Member
I think there may also be a philosophical difference in what we all mean by the word "deserve" too. I think if things did go down the way the police say (and I agree, that's not necessarily the case) that they were justified in their actions. That's very different than saying that the guy deserved to die though.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Indeed - "deserve" to me doesn't mean those with a legal monopoly on violence purposefully go out an kill on behalf of the state, as punishment - but that it is justified loss that is intended to prevent further deaths.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
But in the States, where conceal and open carry is becoming the norm, being armed or holding a gun is not in itself a reason for excessive policing.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I have to agree after watching vids of police apparently needlessly killing civilians that I am unwilling to simply assume the cops are always the white hats.
riffraff
Active Member
There's a lot of stuff going on in the US that we miss when we look at one protest/riot or shooting/incident. There's the demographic, economic and history of specific states/towns/regions with respect to race relations. And then, right now, there's the election and the Trump Phenomena. More horrific to me than the police actions and reactions in the streets is the very real threat that is being articulated and reported in some US media that David Duke, who never left the KKK, and the leader of the American Nazi Party that in Trump they see opportunities for appointments to Federal positions and real influence in helping him to implement his stated policy goals domestically. I'm sure their local activists and chapters are activated on the ground because The Donald is counting on them to get out the vote for him.
Trump has been careful not to attack Blacks the way he has hammered Muslims and Mexicans, but the message is there plain as can be. That serves to amplify the real fears and tensions Blacks feel in the blatant police involved brutality. We also forget that the NRA jumps up when there are mass shootings, usually committed by whites. encouraging Americans to be armed and ready to defend themselves and most states have very lax gun laws. The right to bear arms is not race restricted but when Blacks legally have guns they are automatically deemed to have criminal intent. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more return fire.
Trump has been careful not to attack Blacks the way he has hammered Muslims and Mexicans, but the message is there plain as can be. That serves to amplify the real fears and tensions Blacks feel in the blatant police involved brutality. We also forget that the NRA jumps up when there are mass shootings, usually committed by whites. encouraging Americans to be armed and ready to defend themselves and most states have very lax gun laws. The right to bear arms is not race restricted but when Blacks legally have guns they are automatically deemed to have criminal intent. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more return fire.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
No beef about that - what's happening down in the US is a completely different story that goes beyond decency.
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gabe
Senior Member
One big problem in America is the police have a culture from the top down to protect their own...even bad ones. THAT needs to change.
The police need a huge reform in their training, and officers need to be held accountable when wrong.
Bill Maher is spot on.
The police need a huge reform in their training, and officers need to be held accountable when wrong.
Bill Maher is spot on.
JWBF
Senior Member
ALL groups, including government and (para)military look after themselves.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Indeed, that's one of the reasons people (and most creatures) join groups; to benefit from the protection and sense of belonging that groups convey.
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TheKingEast
Senior Member
The Ryan Lochte situation immediately reminded me of this thread.
salsa
Senior Member
It's true. There was a video that came out last year highlighting the media hypocrisy in its coverage of white riots vs black protests.
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