[smallspy]

I birefly looked over the document -- THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR FINDING THIS -- and it looks like they are planning on making Zum Queen West and Zum Steeles West into their own routes. What's the point of that? If they want to have lower frequencies on the Western branches then they could just create a short turn routes that dont go west of Main. By keeping two separate routes they are creating an unnecessary linear transfer for folks in west Brampton.

Apparently the frequencies projected east and west of Main are such that one would almost never would be a multiple of the other. As an example, how do you break out the branches if one side needs 6 minute frequencies, but the other 14? It just can't be done in a reliable and cost-effective manner.

That said, through-routing or branching will likely happen at other times when it makes sense to do so.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[ShonTron]

I birefly looked over the document -- THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR FINDING THIS -- and it looks like they are planning on making Zum Queen West and Zum Steeles West into their own routes. What's the point of that? If they want to have lower frequencies on the Western branches then they could just create a short turn routes that dont go west of Main. By keeping two separate routes they are creating an unnecessary linear transfer for folks in west Brampton.

501/A is now Brampton's busiest and longest route. Splitting it up at Downtown Brampton makes a lot of sense, especially weekdays. I'm not really sure if Queen West needs a Zum BRT-lite route anyway, but it is funded, so I'll take it, but don't expect anything more than every 15 minutes when it starts up, maybe even 20 minutes off-peak. Right now, 501/A is every 7.5-10 minutes weekday daytime, and doesn't drop below every 15.

But this is why I'm disappointed how the interim route 56 isn't planned to go Downtown, where a number of routes converge. It would have been nice for Route 6 to start implementation this year, even on a limited basis.

 

[Markster]

By keeping two separate routes they are creating an unnecessary linear transfer for folks in west Brampton.

In Kitchener, we are riddled with routes that, on paper, appear to be a linear transfer.

However, in practice, what happens with these routes is that they tend to be inter-lined whenever possible. You will likely see almost all 501 Queen West continue eastwards.

As for the worry that the service frequencies will not allow all buses to be through-routed, it's possible that they could have the Queen West be a nice even fraction of the Queen East, but make up any capacity slack with the existing local bus, which doesn't have as strong a reason to be through-routed.

(In Kitchener through-routes like this are the 7/52, 29/4, 5/35, 35/9, 9/13, and probably more. Those last 3 combos actually lead to an huge circuitous route through Waterloo that one can theoretically ride for a 2 hour joyride. The big pain point now with a lot of routes in Kitchener is that all routes passing through the downtowns end up having 5 minute layovers while they wait for the timepoint. Even our single 10-minute-frequency express route will layover for 5 minutes downtown.)

 

[Evening]

Apparently the frequencies projected east and west of Main are such that one would almost never would be a multiple of the other. As an example, how do you break out the branches if one side needs 6 minute frequencies, but the other 14? It just can't be done in a reliable and cost-effective manner.

That said, through-routing or branching will likely happen at other times when it makes sense to do so.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I know jack squat about transit planning so I feel a little uncomfortable making this statement, but that doesn't seem like a good reason to not have a full route. They may not be able to get every other bus to Queen and Steeles West but they should be able to set up a system where a short turn route exists for the more heavily used section of the route and make it work. Possibly west Brampton would be a little over served or a little under served but I think getting rid of that transfer at Downtown is pretty important. I think people usually are only able to tolerate one transfer, in the currently planned system people who need to transfer to subway (when it gets eventually built) and people working in York who live in the west will not think of Zum as that attractive of a service because now they would need to have at least 2 transfers. During the school year when I commute to UofT daily I am turned off of using Zum (I live walking distance from a station) because of the extra bus transfer I have to do with the 196 before getting to the subway. The 196 is alot more frequent than Zum too so people in Brampton west probably wont be jumping for jy for the 506.

In Kitchener, we are riddled with routes that, on paper, appear to be a linear transfer.

However, in practice, what happens with these routes is that they tend to be inter-lined whenever possible. You will likely see almost all 501 Queen West continue eastwards.

As for the worry that the service frequencies will not allow all buses to be through-routed, it's possible that they could have the Queen West be a nice even fraction of the Queen East, but make up any capacity slack with the existing local bus, which doesn't have as strong a reason to be through-routed.

(In Kitchener through-routes like this are the 7/52, 29/4, 5/35, 35/9, 9/13, and probably more. Those last 3 combos actually lead to an huge circuitous route through Waterloo that one can theoretically ride for a 2 hour joyride. The big pain point now with a lot of routes in Kitchener is that all routes passing through the downtowns end up having 5 minute layovers while they wait for the timepoint. Even our single 10-minute-frequency express route will layover for 5 minutes downtown.)

This is what I am thinking will happen too but thats wasted marketing opportunity that relies heavily on brand. Instead of being able to brand a cross Brampton BRT route that connects to York Region, and the subway, we end up with a route that leaves alot to chance which is pretty much anti to the reliability zum is supposed to offer.



One thing I do see as a problem with what I am proposing would be how to do a short turn route for the 501/A as it already has two variants. To offer both variants to Queen west they have to create a 501B via Highway 7 to Mount Pleasant and 501C via Highway 407 to Mount Pleasant but I fear that may turn people off because it appears very complex.

 

[ShonTron]

Good news: 505 Bovaird Zum route coming in 2014 will now definitely connect to Queen Street via Humberwest Parkway, rather than terminate at Bovaird/Airport Road as one of the boards shows as an option.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

That's great news. Was it even an issue? I (used) to live very close to Bovaird, and the 5 was my primary means to reach Toronto through Westwood. Terminating the 505 would have added an unnecessary transfer at Airport, and ridership would have suffered.

 

[Evening]

brampton transit will stop selling paper passes in september. Paper passes and tickets will stop being accepted in january of 2014. they will probably implement the ability to buy and autorenew PRESTO period passes online soon (presto has enabled this but brampton hasn't opted in yet last time i checked). I guess we are in the lead when it comes to presto implementation (with the exception of GO of course).

http://www.brampton.ca/EN/residents/transit/Documents/Updates-Elimination-of-Paper-Passes.pdf

 

[ShonTron]

September service changes are up:

http://www.brampton.ca/EN/residents/transit/service-alerts/Pages/welcome.aspx

I'm away from a computer right now so it's a bit awkward to post all my comments, but there's a few interesting things and diversions from the April public consultations.

Route 56 gets 30 minute midday service and limited Saturday (60 minute) service. But happily it does go downtown, interlining with route 24.

Some service improvements, for example midday 15A service or full all-evening 30 minute service to 23 and 29 aren't bring implemented.

 

[aleesia]

4/4A routing south of Queen = SMH.

4 should stay at Chinguacousy. I understand the need for service to new subdivisions, so I get the 4A reroute. Hopefully next year, 53 or 54 gets extended along the James potter diversion.

Sad to see Mississauga-style efficiency (aka delaying promising changes) on various routes. Understandably, they are becoming short on money. Great to see 31, 35, and 56 get Saturday service though. Thankfully Brampton staff did scramble for resources (and found interlining with 24) as a solution to 56's extension to Downtown Terminal instead of Flower City Campus. And the 56 extension to Downtown Terminal is definitely one of the highlights in this change.

51 and 58 seem to coordinate with MiWay's soon-to-be 108, especially that they receive more trips. Very nice thing to see. Happy to see 58 directly serving the RBC loop.

511's reduction from 6 to 8 minutes on PM rush is questionable, but maybe it's because there is not that much demand from Humber College students and instead gave more service to those who work on the industrial areas who need local service.

Overall, a great change.

 

[DKsan]

There's some quirky little changes too. My route, the 18/A, finishes the 20 minute midday service an hour earlier and transitions to rush hour service smoother. Meanwhile in the last year, they added 20 minute 7-10 pm evening service after being 30 minutes for so long. Now we get another transition period, as we get 10 minute NB service between 7-8 pm, then transition to 20 minute service. I actually wasn't expecting service improvements this month for the 18/A.

 

[DKsan]

I don't know if this deserves it's own thread (though considering the VIVA rapidways and the Hurontario LRT have their own threads...), but the Metrolinx Queen Street Rapid Transit LRT or BRT Benefits Case is up: HERE

I'm not sure whether splitting at Airport Road was the most intelligent idea to look at. Goreway Road, because of the 5 (and soon 505), is the last real major Zum station with lots of riders. I'm surprised there wasn't analysis of splitting there, or even at Highway 50.

 

[drum118]

This is one place it makes sense to use BRT in place of LRT.

The case study only looks at capital cost with no real look at the operation cost between BRT vs. LRT.

Its a given fact that capital cost for BRT will always beat LRT, but loose in the operation side.

Based on the corridor today let alone 2031, ridership is not there for an LRT. You are looking at least 2040-50 before this corridor gets built up to support an LRT.

One thing consultants are famous for is not looking at other options not mandated by who every hire them. Since Metrolinx is mostly buses, subway and heavy rail supporters, LRT's and EMU's get shot down.

Splitting this line is forcing rider to add extra travel time and an extra transfer.

Since VIVA is BRT in York Region, you would need to change it west of Keele Station to LRT also and that an extra cost that York not prepared to take on at this time.

The mods will have to make the call if to split the Queen line out as a separate thread, considering how involved it is now as a package.

Both BT and YRT need to be fare integrated for this line as well operating in both regions. Again this is a Metrolinx job to create this seamless line to draw more riders to it.

 

[ShonTron]

I'm really skeptical about any plan for Queen Street other than further upgrades of the current corridor. LRT makes little sense as it is supposed to link to the subway at Vaughan on one end, and a possible extension to Mount Pleasant GO on the other. Dedicated bus lanes, all-door boarding and a rethought of the downtown area (the congestion is pretty bad, especially when GO Trains are arriving in the afternoon) are really what's needed.

Hurontario/Main Street, which has more intensifiication possibilities and connecting three GO stations and several growth centres, is the only corridor in Peel Region really suited to immediate LRT construction.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

The case study only looks at capital cost with no real look at the operation cost between BRT vs. LRT.

Its a given fact that capital cost for BRT will always beat LRT, but loose in the operation side.

Operational costs are part of the BCA analysis. The option that performed best from the benefit-cost perspective was a BRT corridor from Downtown Brampton to the Spadina Subway extension.

 

[ShonTron]

When was the IBI report on Queen Street made public? I notice that they use a photo of mine on Flickr without attribution. My photos are CC non-commerical with attribution required.