[UserNameToronto]

...twee...

I can't think of a better word than twee to describe the plan. Then again, Cabbagetown's not a place that shies away from twee-ness.

 

[jozl]

I've lived in "Cabbagetown" for nearly 40 years. I've bitched and complained about the plethora of ugly utility poles and Hydro wires for decades. Toronto Hydro changed their utility poles years ago when they switched to higher voltage service but the improvements to the streetscape were minimal. We still have ugly overhead wires, transformers and massive concrete and wooden utility poles up the yin yang. There was a plan launched in the late 80's to bury the wires but it never happened. I've given up. The city, Toronto Hydro, the TTC and whoever now owns the telecom wires don't give a crap about the way our streets look. It's ridiculous. I'm often tempted to take a massive chain saw to all the ugly crap that clutters our streets.

 

[UserNameToronto]

I think the exposed hydro poles are a Toronto-wide issue, not a Cabbagetown-specific issue.

Perhaps Shawn Micallef's article will change your outlook on them?


Much that is old works, in Toronto: Micallef
Many cities have touristy historic districts, but not Toronto, where old stuff from streetcars to telephone poles are everywhere, supporting the real life of the city.

http://www.thestar.com/life/2013/08/15/much_that_is_old_works_in_toronto_micallef.html

 

[Tewder]

Perhaps a reason for Toronto’s strange amnesia about our own history, though it’s all around us, is because we’ve been trained to look for the central historic district we don’t have. The easy history. Toronto’s a hard city to market to tourists, in part, because it takes some work and an eye for the details to see its historic roots.

http://www.thestar.com/life/2013/08/15/much_that_is_old_works_in_toronto_micallef.html


You can't market what you can't identify or don't value. I get tired of the Toronto-has-no-history or Toronto-is-too-young nonsense that is the popular perception in this city regarding its past. Even those who do value history in Toronto often have a complete inability to impart it or celebrate it with any passion. We approach it like academics and scientists rather than artists or poets, which is part of the problem. We need to approach it form both angles. There is more to history than names, dates and facts. There is a story in history too. We show ourselves remarkably incapable of telling this story in any meaningful, relevant or compelling way... This is our problem.

 

[UserNameToronto]

http://www.thestar.com/life/2013/08/15/much_that_is_old_works_in_toronto_micallef.html


You can't market what you can't identify or don't value. I get tired of the Toronto-has-no-history or Toronto-is-too-young nonsense that is the popular perception in this city regarding its past. Even those who do value history in Toronto often have a complete inability to impart it or celebrate it with any passion. We approach it like academics and scientists rather than artists or poets, which is part of the problem. We need to approach it form both angles. There is more to history than names, dates and facts. There is a story in history too. We show ourselves remarkably incapable of telling this story in any meaningful, relevant or compelling way... This is our problem.

+1.

I often visit family hear Hampstead Heath in central London UK. Their red-brick Victorian terraced street was built around 1890, and they basically don't believe we could possibly have buildings that old in Toronto (let alone ones that look basically the same).

 

[hawc]

I've lived in "Cabbagetown" for nearly 40 years.

Just moved to Cabbagetown 2 months ago. We absolutely love it. Best kept secret in Toronto.

 

[MisterF]

I think the exposed hydro poles are a Toronto-wide issue, not a Cabbagetown-specific issue.

Perhaps Shawn Micallef's article will change your outlook on them?


Much that is old works, in Toronto: Micallef
Many cities have touristy historic districts, but not Toronto, where old stuff from streetcars to telephone poles are everywhere, supporting the real life of the city.

http://www.thestar.com/life/2013/08/15/much_that_is_old_works_in_toronto_micallef.html

Don't take this the wrong way but this strikes me as a very bizarre attitude. Buried hydro wires aren't just for tourist districts. Buried hydro wires support real life in the city just as well as "old stuff", if not better. A higher standard for streetscaping and beautification makes the city more pleasant for everyone.

 

[mrgrieves]

Don't take this the wrong way but this strikes me as a very bizarre attitude. Buried hydro wires aren't just for tourist districts. Buried hydro wires support real life in the city just as well as "old stuff", if not better. A higher standard for streetscaping and beautification makes the city more pleasant for everyone.

I read the article and also thought the thinking was off. I don't see the link between a Disneyland-ish old city tourist district, and having wooden poles and transformers serving as visual pollution across your city.

 

[UserNameToronto]

We're getting off the topic of Cabbagetown here, but let me share this thought anyhow:

I've been away from Toronto for several years in a city that has buries utilities. Now when I come back to Toronto, the hydro poles and streetcar wires really stand out to me, much more than when I was living there. But I think it's part of the city's look and charm. It's weird for a big, modern, first-world city to have throwbacks like these, and I think they give Toronto some much needed character.

I personally find other downtown niggles (panhandlers, poor wayfinding signage, the need to pay cash to ride the TTC) much more troublesome than hydro poles. Pals who have visited Toronto agree.

 

[Tewder]

I've been away from Toronto for several years in a city that has buries utilities. Now when I come back to Toronto, the hydro poles and streetcar wires really stand out to me, much more than when I was living there. But I think it's part of the city's look and charm.

How about the potholes and asphalt patched sidewalks? Those are pretty charming too right?

It's weird for a big, modern, first-world city to have throwbacks like these, and I think they give Toronto some much needed character.

How do other cities manage to have their own 'look' or exude their own charm or character while burying wires and dealing with utilities in a way that isn't completely disrespectful of the public realm? The hydro pole is a symbol of our neglect and of a tradition of indifference to our urban form. We can do much better.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Just moved to Cabbagetown 2 months ago. We absolutely love it. Best kept secret in Toronto.

It is a great area. I've been living in CT since 1998 (less a three year stint in Fredericton). It was a lot rougher back then, with prostitutes and drug dealers evident at night, plus more rooming houses. In 1998 my wife and I noticed that folks with kids were moving out once, and when asked said they didn't want to raise kids there. Now the area is filled with kids, including mine.

I wouldn't live anywhere else now. It's so central to everything - last weekend we all walked to the ROM and back to see the bat cave, et al. On the weekend the kids and I walked down to Corktown Common park, and then went swimming at Regent Park Aquatic Centre. I'm thinking of buying a condo at the Canary District to give to my daughters. The area is going to be great in ten+ years when they're adults.

 

[TonyV]

How about the potholes and asphalt patched sidewalks? Those are pretty charming too right?





How do other cities manage to have their own 'look' or exude their own charm or character while burying wires and dealing with utilities in a way that isn't completely disrespectful of the public realm? The hydro pole is a symbol of our neglect and of a tradition of indifference to our urban form. We can do much better.

Do you really think that a city that elects bean counters like Ford will bring forward initiatives to tame our nasty public realm? Maybe in another generation or two the attitudes will change. Right now, all the political scraps are about "wasting money". Let's just face it, that's the flavour of our politics right now. I don't expect the very next elected administration of this city to change the channel. Can you think of any way to change things?

It is a great area. I've been living in CT since 1998 (less a three year stint in Fredericton). It was a lot rougher back then, with prostitutes and drug dealers evident at night, plus more rooming houses. In 1998 my wife and I noticed that folks with kids were moving out once, and when asked said they didn't want to raise kids there. Now the area is filled with kids, including mine.

I wouldn't live anywhere else now. It's so central to everything - last weekend we all walked to the ROM and back to see the bat cave, et al. On the weekend the kids and I walked down to Corktown Common park, and then went swimming at Regent Park Aquatic Centre. I'm thinking of buying a condo at the Canary District to give to my daughters. The area is going to be great in ten+ years when they're adults.

.. been here since 1997, and from my comfy little perch in C'town, well, The Annex looks good to me. Strange the way the grass is greener ...

 

[Admiral Beez]

.. been here since 1997, and from my comfy little perch in C'town, well, The Annex looks good to me. Strange the way the grass is greener ...

True, but a house in the Annex will cost you more. Back in 1998 our 5 bedroom semi cost under $300K. Even back then a similar place in the Annex would have been $200K more.

So, I'll caveat my earlier comment... for value for dollar, there's no place like CT.

 

[mrgrieves]

We're getting off the topic of Cabbagetown here, but let me share this thought anyhow:

I've been away from Toronto for several years in a city that has buries utilities. Now when I come back to Toronto, the hydro poles and streetcar wires really stand out to me, much more than when I was living there. But I think it's part of the city's look and charm. It's weird for a big, modern, first-world city to have throwbacks like these, and I think they give Toronto some much needed character.

I personally find other downtown niggles (panhandlers, poor wayfinding signage, the need to pay cash to ride the TTC) much more troublesome than hydro poles. Pals who have visited Toronto agree.

you're right it is weird for a big city to have throwbacks like these. And it shows that while on the surface Toronto is a big, modern city, deep down it still has growing up to do. There is nothing charming about filthy wooden poles and 50 year old transformers that look like they're about to topple over. Their presence also means that street trees cannot grow in many areas.

 

[Admiral Beez]

you're right it is weird for a big city to have throwbacks like these. And it shows that while on the surface Toronto is a big, modern city, deep down it still has growing up to do. There is nothing charming about filthy wooden poles and 50 year old transformers that look like they're about to topple over. Their presence also means that street trees cannot grow in many areas.

True, but can you imagine the constant cutting operation and ugly tarmac plugs we’d see all over the city if the utilities were all buried? Already we can’t seem to coordinate the cuts to take place during re-surfacing, resulting in newly laid sidewalks being disfigured by utility cuts.

What I’d rather see is the buried utility wires being covered by a removable cover that can be accessed without cutting up the roads and sidewalks. For example, we don't tear up roads and sidewalks for sewer maintenance - we just use the manhole (or whatever PC term applies). If that’s not feasible, then the cuts must be scheduled to match re-surfacing, and designed with such reliability that emergency access is rarely needed.

Until the various firms and municipal departments can co-ordinate with each other, I’d say overhead wires are the way to go.