Social Justice
Active Member
It surprised me that council approved 14 new communities when they should be trying to encourage office to residential conversions.
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- Thread starter Oddball
- Start date
It surprised me that council approved 14 new communities when they should be trying to encourage office to residential conversions.
JonnyCanuck
Senior Member
Yes, despite all of the talk on council about increasing density in the core, the suburban sprawl continues.
I'm still a big supporter of the idea of office to residential conversions for a few reasons...one of them being the tax base in the CBD needs to be more diverse, and also just to get more people in the CBD. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out as the office vacancy rate doesn't look to be changing anytime soon, and owners may look at alternate uses for the space. Residential seems the most obvious and would be a win win solution, but the issue is with the conversions itself. Small buildings are doable, but the larger buildings.....the ones that would be great (Bow Valley Square, Metropolitan Centre, 5th and 5th, The Edison, etc..) to convert are difficult and costly. A lot of it due to building codes. Maybe that can change, I don't know.
Social Justice
Active Member
True, true. You get units with weird floor-plans and most office to residential units don't have balcony's as you have to alter the building envelope.
Floor plans are tricky for larger spaces for sure. Here's a quicky example of what I thought could be done with say, 5TH and 5TH. This is very rudimentary and not architecturally correct but gives an example of how floor space could be divided up and given to purchasers as bare bones space. Plumbing and electrical would have to be put into each suite. Right ow the building has 15K floorplates, and could be divided into 7 lot or 8 loft spaces that would be between 1,300 and 2,000 sq feet. Pretty good chunk of space to work with.
Right now as an office building it's renting at $21.00/sq ft. If the market stayed stagnant for an extended period of time and the building was half empty and renting at half that, the numbers may start to work. Rent the building for $10.00 a square foot for ten years or sell the space as is for $100.00 a sq foot? A 2,000 sq ft space for $200K would be very appealing for someone who just wants a large loft space, especially a young guy who would be happy to throw in a bed and some kitchen appliances. Costs would change with the plumbing and electrical, etc.. I could see people making them into large bachelor or one bedroom suites. One of the problems is the building codes. You could use the space as is and throw a bed and some kitchen appliances in, but not without having to change things to meet the building code.
Right now as an office building it's renting at $21.00/sq ft. If the market stayed stagnant for an extended period of time and the building was half empty and renting at half that, the numbers may start to work. Rent the building for $10.00 a square foot for ten years or sell the space as is for $100.00 a sq foot? A 2,000 sq ft space for $200K would be very appealing for someone who just wants a large loft space, especially a young guy who would be happy to throw in a bed and some kitchen appliances. Costs would change with the plumbing and electrical, etc.. I could see people making them into large bachelor or one bedroom suites. One of the problems is the building codes. You could use the space as is and throw a bed and some kitchen appliances in, but not without having to change things to meet the building code.
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JonnyCanuck
Senior Member
Running water, drains and ventilation (all required for residential) is not easily done where there was none before.
For sure. Running water generally shouldn't be a problem except for a kitchen island. Drainage is tricky, but a possible workaround for the drainage might be build the bathroom floor up one step, and given the high ceilings, losing room height wouldn't be an issue Not ideal of course, but could work. ...assuming all the bathrooms aren't far from the main stack. Another possibility is to bite the bullet put in a stack that would be shared be two units, you'd be looking at 4 or 5 stacks. It's more cost of course, but allows for more design options. Ventilation is work, not to mention new heating and AC units for the building. Still...I think it's possible if the numbers get to the right spot ...and the building codes can be adjusted.
Operater
Active Member
Hi,
Converting Office Towers to Apts or Condos won't come cheap. If the Economy Picks Up in 6 Months Time for the Better With a Change in
Gvmnts These Dvlpers Will want their Bldgs Back. The ideas sound nice for now But I prefer to wait and see what happens.
Converting Office Towers to Apts or Condos won't come cheap. If the Economy Picks Up in 6 Months Time for the Better With a Change in
Gvmnts These Dvlpers Will want their Bldgs Back. The ideas sound nice for now But I prefer to wait and see what happens.
JonnyCanuck
Senior Member
I have been keeping my 'ear to the ground' with key single family builders in Calgary. 2018 has turned out to be a very disappointing year given the way it started (promising). Most of the sales are coming from spec homes (pre-built) and there is a lot of inventory sitting out there. If the builder does not have deep pockets, then they are vulnerable. Deep discounting of homes is usually a 'red flag' to the banks. Changes in mortgage rules have not helped with demand but it is not the only reason.
The worst news is that builders are not optimistic about 2019 at all. They are saying at best, it will be on par with 2018, and it could actually be worse. Most are pointing to 2020 as a return to a more balanced market.
This is a sure sign that the Calgary economy is far from recovery. It is looking more and more like 2019 will be the fifth straight year of decline. That is far longer than the hiccup that we experienced in 2008-2009.
I consider myself a realist, not a pessimist.
The worst news is that builders are not optimistic about 2019 at all. They are saying at best, it will be on par with 2018, and it could actually be worse. Most are pointing to 2020 as a return to a more balanced market.
This is a sure sign that the Calgary economy is far from recovery. It is looking more and more like 2019 will be the fifth straight year of decline. That is far longer than the hiccup that we experienced in 2008-2009.
I consider myself a realist, not a pessimist.
darwink
Senior Member
Not much a provincial government can do to get rid of the WCS differential, or the natural gas glut. All the short term options are unpalatable (the government buying a mine and mothballing its production; building a massive storage facility to store overproduction at public expense; or giving themselves the power to curtail production from producers, then curtailing production); and the long term options are very long term and very risky (supporting a new massive upgrader that will only be economic if conditions hold for two decades). Medium term options are already being explored-signing fixed contracts for oil by rail to guarantee carriage, instead of trying to move oil by rail using common carrier service.
The best option is to wait for pipelines to reopen and be upgraded, and maybe to stop approving incremental oil production (maybe a new cap and trade for the right to produce? Little idea how this could work fairly).
MichaelS
Senior Member
Unfortunately I have been hearing similar things from some developers as well. Fingers crossed it isn't as bad as some are fearing, but right now I am not seeing much hope unfortunately.I have been keeping my 'ear to the ground' with key single family builders in Calgary. 2018 has turned out to be a very disappointing year given the way it started (promising). Most of the sales are coming from spec homes (pre-built) and there is a lot of inventory sitting out there. If the builder does not have deep pockets, then they are vulnerable. Deep discounting of homes is usually a 'red flag' to the banks. Changes in mortgage rules have not helped with demand but it is not the only reason.
The worst news is that builders are not optimistic about 2019 at all. They are saying at best, it will be on par with 2018, and it could actually be worse. Most are pointing to 2020 as a return to a more balanced market.
This is a sure sign that the Calgary economy is far from recovery. It is looking more and more like 2019 will be the fifth straight year of decline. That is far longer than the hiccup that we experienced in 2008-2009.
I consider myself a realist, not a pessimist.
darwink
Senior Member
Good thing they fought so hard this summer to get 14 new communities approved at great cost to the taxpayers.
JoeUrban
Active Member
Not really a solution but is there any extra rail capacity? If not is the bottleneck the rail bandwidth itself, or not enough rail cars?
darwink
Senior Member
It is a lot of different things. But if a company signs a deal that they want two unit trains ~125000 barrels going to the gulf coast every day for 5 years, then the railways can invest to find a route with enough capacity, and build capacity at choke points (hopefully bypassing Chicago). Someone can buy railcars (whether it is for leasing them, owning them). Someone can build a loading facility and build a pipeline to the loading point.
If a company was to sign for a very long contract, potentially https://www.cninnovation.ca/ could be used (if it turns out to work well) and coal infrastructure in Prince Rupert and rail capacity that used to ship coal that way could be repurposed.
Habanero
Active Member
It's all about those long term contracts. CP and CN wold be happy to move the oil, but they won't add more cars etc, until they have something long term. I'm surprised they haven't tried to lease the cars, but it must work different than say aircraft where leasing is an attractive option. Tanker cars may be more difficult for the leasing company to re-deploy if they come back?