Go Elevated or try for Underground?

  • Work with the province and go with the Elevated option

    Votes: 42 79.2%

  • Try another approach and go for Underground option

    Votes: 7 13.2%

  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Go with a BRT solution

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • Total voters
    53
darwink said:
If you did that too many people would be highly irrational and try to take the green line downtown instead of walking to the red line even when going south. That would then drive costs in a myriad of ways.
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How? Event Center traffic will be mostly off-peak so more people into dt wouldn't be a problem. I could see not wanting a direct entrance into the Event Center to avoid security issues
 
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DougB said:
How? Event Center traffic will be mostly off-peak so more people into dt wouldn't be a problem. I could see not wanting a direct entrance into the Event Center to avoid security issues
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People are not entirely rational looking at time tables and google maps and the like. even then, it depends on how much the algorithm seeks to avoid walking.
 
CalgaryTiger said:
Keep getting this ad on Instagram. Some LED screens in the underground stations could be pretty cool. Skimp on the fancy above ground entries, splurge on LED screens.
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LED screens everywhere please
I've said this before but the giant screens at 1 St SW are really cool
 
I saw signs on 52nd just before 130th Ave where the Shepard train maintenance and storage facility is going warning of impending construction for the Greenline. Good sign to me. I drive there often and the signs are brand new,
 
MichaelS said:
I was wondering about that also. There is a Greenline Board meeting on July 4th. Verbal progress reports will be given, then confidential ones as well that will likely contain more details (not that we will know):

Green Line Board - July 04, 2024

pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com

Anyone think it is a good sign for the project?...
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The May update said "Options are being evaluated to address the cost pressures that were identified after the 30% design submissionmilestone in January. This work is being done in advance of the next Development Phase milestone in June 2024 with delivery of the 60% design submission and the Board Decision Gate. The Board anticipates bringing forward recommendations by the end of Q2 2024 for Council decisions."

There hasn't been a public decision to proceed to construction, nor have there been recommendations to Council. Presumably if those were easy, they would have happened already.

The situation looks grim to me. The Crescent Heights segment and the bridge are presumably long gone, but Shepard to Eau Claire seems to be over the budget. They can't make the project any shorter, so either the city puts in more money, or they need to scale back on the size of the stations (which will take months) or the amount of underground construction (which will take year(s).
 
As they say, the silence is deafening. I assume information will come out as we roll into Stampede with perhaps the hope that everyone will be distracted. If they had good news, you would think they would be excited about it...
 
zagox said:
The May update said "Options are being evaluated to address the cost pressures that were identified after the 30% design submissionmilestone in January. This work is being done in advance of the next Development Phase milestone in June 2024 with delivery of the 60% design submission and the Board Decision Gate. The Board anticipates bringing forward recommendations by the end of Q2 2024 for Council decisions."

There hasn't been a public decision to proceed to construction, nor have there been recommendations to Council. Presumably if those were easy, they would have happened already.

The situation looks grim to me. The Crescent Heights segment and the bridge are presumably long gone, but Shepard to Eau Claire seems to be over the budget. They can't make the project any shorter, so either the city puts in more money, or they need to scale back on the size of the stations (which will take months) or the amount of underground construction (which will take year(s).
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It is somewhat of a Catch-22. The Green Line at $6B already was marginal in terms of cost-benefit (only ~$70K riders). If it scraps the section north of Eau Claire and still incurs another multi-billion dollar cost escalation, is the project even worth it? Remember, this project will cripple City finances for decades.
 
O-tac said:
Danielle Smith and the UCP are the hold up imo. Their negativity and push towards everything being at grade are increasing pressure. The province is the antagonist here.
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Rightfully so. The Province doesn't want to be on the hook for overruns. The City has no credibility as every one of its cost estimates has been wrong.
 
^ The province isn't. And also, the city isn't.

The city also was in a very high pressure comms environment with the water challenges. With the schedule for meetings, I don't think anything should be Kreminology'd into this.

I don't think there is a lot of understanding of what challenges today mean, versus challenges 36 months ago. A decision to change the route 36 months ago adds to analysis paralysis. A decision today is near decisive -- it is made by the proponent and the greenline office and then ratified by the board unless the board thinks the methodology behind the change is wrong.
 
darwink said:
^ The province isn't. And also, the city isn't.

The city also was in a very high pressure comms environment with the water challenges. With the schedule for meetings, I don't think anything should be Kreminology'd into this.

I don't think there is a lot of understanding of what challenges today mean, versus challenges 36 months ago. A decision to change the route 36 months ago adds to analysis paralysis. A decision today is near decisive -- it is made by the proponent and the greenline office and then ratified by the board unless the board thinks the methodology behind the change is wrong.
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I'm assuming there will be minimal interest in a fixed bid RFP given the issues with the Valley Line in Edmonton, O-Train in Ottawa and Eglinton West in Toronto.
 
DougB said:
I'm assuming there will be minimal interest in a fixed bid RFP given the issues with the Valley Line in Edmonton, O-Train in Ottawa and Eglinton West in Toronto.
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Goes back further. Turns out fixed costs has been a horrendously bad idea when there are known unknowns (how hard will it be to manage the geotechnical risk) and unknown unknowns (until we have a hole in the ground, do we ever truly know what is in it?). On top of that, it works a lot better when interest rates and inflation were in the basement. The risk premium required does accurately cost the projects for government, but it inflates project costs so much it would be better to not do it and just hold a risk premium over an entire project portfolio.
 
Would the Green Line be better off by still building the events centre station then have it go up on surface/elevated on 4th and end at 7th Ave as a temporary downtown solution. (Most likely 2 decades)?

Still dig the tunnel for events centre and build that station underground while the arena is under construction. (Airport Tunnel Logic)

Estimated Savings is $1.5 - 1.8 billion. Honestly could be more the beltline and DT Tunnel section is probably the main culprit for the budget inflation.

Use the remaining money to get the train to Seton and get to the real ridership areas.
 
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