[jhappy77]

I think at this point we just need to see it elevated thru downtown and Eau Claire, using 2 St. That option was dismissed way too early in the review process last time, seemingly by office building owners who were worried about it decreasing their property values. But I really doubt their argument holds any water - elevated rail is everywhere in dense urban areas of Metro Vancouver, and people love it. Just get 'er built- it's a logical compromise that won't impact the quality of transit but will mean good transit reaches more people sooner.

 

[lemongrab]

Firstly, I wouldnt presume to tell you anything. You stated that the current alignement had proven to be false. Proven implies that there is factual evidence available to demonstrate such. I simply asked what was available, showing this. I would argue the Province pulling their funding, wasnt a demonstration of this, as they had reviewed the project multiple times, including this latest amendedment and determined if was acceptable, until they woke up one morning and decided it wasnt. If the Province releases documentation or communications with the City, showing they were questioning the reduction/tunnel section prior to the Minister pulling funding (after saying it could be taken to the bank ) I will gladly alter my viewpoint.

Political risk is present in any mega-project. The dunderheads pulling their funding in bad-faith is not itself proof, as we've seen a lot of absurd actions by them and similar governments, but in the total context I find it hard to argue that the tunnel has not eaten the project. At least FIVE major scope reductions - each time a new budget and timeline, each time proven false (for a variety of reasons tbf). This last time it certainly felt like construction was actually imminent, but who knows.

If you want to tell me that a Toyota Sequoia is the longest lasting car out there and absolute best option for my needs that's fine, but if I have to get the base model (like a peasant!) and sacrifice all of my other financial goals and I can't even afford to drive it all the way to the mountain bike trail (which would be silly anyways because I had to pawn my mountain bike...but hopefully soon I'll have the money to buy it back and make my Sequoia useful!)...then isn't it obviously not the best option?

The arguement for OPEX and user experience arriving underground, can be applied directly to an elevated option also.
I frankly dont care how other cities do things. I live in and my concerns are with Calgary and again, I wouldnt presume to tell you anything.
Im unsure as to your point about the surface lots. Which central station are you referring to?

Elevated is cheaper and arguably a better experience for more riders (but like all things here the tradeoffs vary).

The surface lots is just to say that we are not so jam packed on every square inch of downtown that anything other than underground would be essentially impossible, as is the case in much bigger cities.

I don't really disagree with the rest of your post; we all value tradeoffs differently.

 

[O-tac]

So we trade a small bird in the hand for some magic beans. Are we anywhere close to exhausting our existing TOD options? EC area was revitalizing just fine with or without the green line.

A dying mall with a stale redevelopment proposal and a plaza that’s taken years to finish some bricks and sticks? That’s not exactly revitalized if you ask me. Maybe the developer dragged their feet due to all of the politics involved.

 

[O-tac]

If they want to be conscious with an appropriate NCLRT connection, and not overload City Hall as a transfer point - forcing a tunnel to be built which they are trying to avoid for the medium term - then 2 ST SW is the natural alignment for elevated. With the lay of the land currently, there should be a sufficient radius to make the turn from 10 Av to 2 St.

Isn’t there like a 10 story parkade for the Calgary tower there? How tall would the train track have to be?

 

[UrbanWarrior]

I would say 4th street would be the natural alignment, but then the issue is getting over The Core, which at 4 storeys plus the domed roof, isn’t really feasible I guess. I always thought 11th and 2nd alignment was underbuilt though. 12 Ave and 5th Street tunnel would have been better. Get the people to where people go, easier. Employment Centre, population centre, mall, medical centre, etc. plus there’s both an eastbound and westbound station adjoining at 5th street. A station at Central Memorial Park on 12th, then turn up 5th building the turn under the Chumir parking lot. Even having the terminus at 5th and 7th.

Even 3rd would be better, since the plan already is to rebuild 3rd eventually anyways. Would make a good single lane one-way.


And that’s the end of my fantasy 10 billion dollar diatribe.

 

[Ramsayite]

Conservative province dude. Live with it.

Increasingly less so. AB cities are fairly progressive. It's the uneducated, mouth-breathing conspiratorial types in rural areas that are holding the conservative faction together... And I'm not sure if you can even call their values conservative anymore... Peter Lougheed would hardly recognize the reactionary wildrose base as "conservative."

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Really we could just call the UCP a right wing populist party, they’re not conservative, just pandering to the fears of the lowest common denominator.

 

[Joborule]

Isn’t there like a 10 story parkade for the Calgary tower there? How tall would the train track have to be?

There's an access ramp on 2nd Street for vehicles on 9th Ave. The option I'd figured is they can choose to elevate over it at a +45 level (which may need to be considered anyway due to a double stacked +15 nearby 7th Ave), or remove the ramp, and have 10th Ave as the only access to the parkade. Either way, it'll need to be at a high height due to freight rail.

 

[Golfing guy]

I think at this point we just need to see it elevated thru downtown and Eau Claire, using 2 St. That option was dismissed way too early in the review process last time, seemingly by office building owners who were worried about it decreasing their property values. But I really doubt their argument holds any water - elevated rail is everywhere in dense urban areas of Metro Vancouver, and people love it. Just get 'er built- it's a logical compromise that won't impact the quality of transit but will mean good transit reaches more people sooner.

If you elevated the tracks through downtown on 2 st, how do you get it over the tracks? First of all there is a massive parkade just south of them @ 10&2nd. Second the gradual grade that is required for a train to go up the slope (+30 over tracks) would require it to start probably by the bus barn if it was going downtown (it has too clear all north/south roads along way too). All the options thru downtown have been studied to death. It’s why underground is the only practical option.
True Vancouver is elevated but when the lines hit downtown Vancouver they are underground

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Earlier in this thread we mentioned matching the elevated guideway on the west side of the city. It doesn't actually take that long to go from surface (4th Street SE) to being high enough to clear the CPKC tracks (600m).

IMO It couldn't be done by 3rd Street SE, unless 4th Street SE station is elevated (see Sunalta station). This is why I asked if they said what 4th Street SE station was, I don't think they have said but I assume it is a surface station because the logistics of an elevated station in such a central point are melting my mind. To me, this means 3rd Street SE (behind city hall) is off the table. Thankfully.

If we've thought of an alignment it is likely on the table as an option. I assume the AECOM report will be some nice reading over Christmas for me. They said shovels for 4th to Shepard early next year, we'll see.

 

[HudsonA08]

I would say 4th street would be the natural alignment, but then the issue is getting over The Core, which at 4 storeys plus the domed roof, isn’t really feasible I guess. I always thought 11th and 2nd alignment was underbuilt though. 12 Ave and 5th Street tunnel would have been better. Get the people to where people go, easier. Employment Centre, population centre, mall, medical centre, etc. plus there’s both an eastbound and westbound station adjoining at 5th street. A station at Central Memorial Park on 12th, then turn up 5th building the turn under the Chumir parking lot. Even having the terminus at 5th and 7th.

Even 3rd would be better, since the plan already is to rebuild 3rd eventually anyways. Would make a good single lane one-way.


And that’s the end of my fantasy 10 billion dollar diatribe.

I wonder if 12th ave to 5 st is really not possible elevated. You would need to figure out how to work it with the existing bike lanes etc, but a station near Chumir and then using the surface parking lot to swing around for the curve up 5th might make the best sense for getting people to where they want to go.

And just imagine the view from the train as you make that turn. That alone is worth the cost of admission. I also know having the elevated line go through heavy traffic areas is great as people stuck in traffic see the train fly by and start to wonder why am I waiting to make this left turn instead of taking the train.

 

[Red Star]

Province recommits funding to Calgary's Green Line LRT project

"Productive discussions" between the city and province over the past few weeks have led to the decision to resume Green Line Construction.

calgary.citynews.ca

Good to hear the project is restarting!

I'm glad they're using high-floor trains. Increased speeds and capacity along with interchanging with Blue and Red lines.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

12th ave

My reading is 4th Street SE station is at-grade and thus 12 Avenue alignment is a no go, how would you get it there? I think a 4th Street Se station at-grade gives you only two options.

10 Avenue to 2 Street SW
11 Avenue to 1 Street SW
10/11 Avenue to 1 Street SE (yeah I said it)

glad they're high-floor trains

Not happening...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/green-line-agreement-advancement-1.7348962

"As that engineering work continues, Dreeshen said he hopes it means construction contracts for the project can be finalized soon. He noted the agreement means existing contracts, like the one for new LRT cars, can be honoured."

Also from the article:

"Barclay Parade closes​

The city is also moving forward with permanently closing Barclay Parade S.W., a street in downtown's Eau Claire district. Barclay Parade runs between Eau Claire Market and the nearby River Run condominiums, two buildings that have been slated for demolition to make way for the Green Line.

The Green Line team identified the demolition plan for Eau Claire Market and the River Run condos as an urgent decision the city must make, given potential safety and security concerns. A date to demolish the two buildings, which have sat empty for months, has not yet been set."

Sounds like some uncertainty (understandably) on the alignment meaning without all the information the city will need to make a decision on Eau Claire.

 

[lemongrab]

A dying mall with a stale redevelopment proposal and a plaza that’s taken years to finish some bricks and sticks? That’s not exactly revitalized if you ask me. Maybe the developer dragged their feet due to all of the politics involved.

What a dump:

 

[HudsonA08]

My reading is 4th Street SE station is at-grade and thus 12 Avenue alignment is a no go, how would you get it there? I think a 4th Street Se station at-grade gives you only two options.

I am not an urban planner, just a lowly project manager, so I am unaware of what was discussed before, but why could the station not be on 12 Ave right outside the new stadium? Most of that side of the stadium is grade level gathering places and restaurants. This would most likely be the best route and that is why they decided to tunnel this route, but just wondering why grade level to elevated would not work.