Mountain Man
Senior Member
Just build the damn thing already!!
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
Yeah I have heard about the considerable difficulties the OTrain has had. I wouldn’t really say 11% is inconsequential though, keeping in mind that we were smaller than them for our entire history until like 6 years ago. But yeah, still pretty embarrassing that our system expansion is going so slow.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I think this really speaks to the idea that someone had to take train building away from cities. From my memory a lot of the delay was the, "what type of line, what's the alignment, how much do we build?" debate at city hall (councilors and bureaucrats). Why those who are so unskilled in building trains thought they should talk so much about it is maddening.
Get ready to pull your hair out...
March 2013 a councilor had come up with a clever name for the busway to the southeast and was beginning to shop changing it to a LRT, meanwhile other councilors were trying to get a clever name for a busway to the north to catch on.
In May 2015, TWO YEARS LATER! Keating smelt blood in the water for changing the busway to a LRT. While some guy named Nenshi thought: "There is however also an operational issue and that is: will enough people use it to justify that enormous cost? And we're pretty sure that enough people will use it right up front on the north portion of the Green Line because people are already really using transit, but the south portion will need time to grow."
Over 9 years of talking about a LRT, shovels in the ground maybe by spring 2024 (11 years since March 2013) and by the time its operating it will be closer to spring 2030 (17 years since March 2013). This is all assuming negotiations go well once they make their choice on who's building it and go through that year of show and tell.
To be positive, I assume in the 2025 election (if the coalition holds on that long) the Liberals and Conservatives will be falling over themselves to promise funding for a Green Line extension. Will that extension be to the north or south? "We're going to let the Albertrain (provincial train-building arm created following 2023 provincial election) team make that decision based on their expertise"... A guy can dream.
Get ready to pull your hair out...
March 2013 a councilor had come up with a clever name for the busway to the southeast and was beginning to shop changing it to a LRT, meanwhile other councilors were trying to get a clever name for a busway to the north to catch on.
In May 2015, TWO YEARS LATER! Keating smelt blood in the water for changing the busway to a LRT. While some guy named Nenshi thought: "There is however also an operational issue and that is: will enough people use it to justify that enormous cost? And we're pretty sure that enough people will use it right up front on the north portion of the Green Line because people are already really using transit, but the south portion will need time to grow."
Over 9 years of talking about a LRT, shovels in the ground maybe by spring 2024 (11 years since March 2013) and by the time its operating it will be closer to spring 2030 (17 years since March 2013). This is all assuming negotiations go well once they make their choice on who's building it and go through that year of show and tell.
To be positive, I assume in the 2025 election (if the coalition holds on that long) the Liberals and Conservatives will be falling over themselves to promise funding for a Green Line extension. Will that extension be to the north or south? "We're going to let the Albertrain (provincial train-building arm created following 2023 provincial election) team make that decision based on their expertise"... A guy can dream.
goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
Keep in mind that's 2030 just for phase 1 build-out. Add on another 6 years for the river crossing to 16th. At this rate It will be 2040 at the earliest before stage 2 is operational. Unbelievable.
Edmonton has better prospects with their current system expansion which is way more aggressive and actually delivering projects in the next few years to meet future needs. In Calgary we will be delivering transit in 2040 to address demands from 2015.
darwink
Senior Member
The funds for the first section are in the 2016-2026 infrastructure agreement. Soon can start to promise funds from the next agreement.
Hence why I think it is pretty much a sure thing we will get to 64th in the North and McKenzie Towne in the South by ~10 years from today.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
Hope you're right!
whatchyyc
Active Member
I think we're gonna see at least one extension break ground before stage 1 opens similar to VLW already well underway before VLSE has opened
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
Maybe this is just my desire to get this thing going but VE the stations and whatever else as much as you want on the first phase. Go minimalist and simple, save the fancy bits for the refresh in 2050. Just when you get to building over the bow downtown, do something special. But then get back to VE'd everything. Just build it.
darwink
Senior Member
If the procurement fails entirely, which is still possible but way less likely now that there are two short listed firms, the VE and more importantly risk reduction step was to switch to elevated.
Fortunately we likely will never have to explore that. And we will never know if it would have saved half a billion bucks or more.
YYCguy
Active Member
What is “VE”, “VLW” and “VLSE” (for us common folk not in “the biz”)?
whatchyyc
Active Member
Value engineering and Valley Line West and Southeast, Edmonton's new LRT line
lemongrab
Active Member
It's more than a little concerning to see those other major transit snafus (add Edmonton's signalling debacle near NAIT)...something similar seems inevitable for the green line at this point.
The obvious VE that nobody ever wanted to consider is going back to BRT design for the short-mid term, which has another huge benefit of being able to open in smaller chunks. At this rate they could pave a BRT and barely be ready to actually lay tracks when it is due for re-paving.
accord1999
Active Member
But the only real possible extension at such a point, given the uncertainty of whether Stage 1 even crosses the Bow, is for it to continue further south. A bitter pill for NC Calgary to swallow given how the NC LRT was essentially cut in Stage 1.
Unlike the Green Line, Valley Line SE only only took about $2B so there was plenty of money leftover for Valley Line West. With the Green Line Stage 1 consuming every last dollar of the initial funding, Calgary will need significant grants from Alberta and Ottawa to build a meaningful northern extension.
YYCguy
Active Member
I used to think Toronto was slower than molasses to get rail projects done, but I think Calgary has won that title now!
Joborule
Active Member
It is kind of funny the argument to go with the SE first back around 2019 was that the ROW was already in place. If since the project was announced, the ROW for NC was acquired from then to now, the NCLRT would probably be ready to go, and it would rightfully be going up north first instead, with the garage over by Aurora Park.