darwink
Senior Member
Not ROW.
Design. Centre Street has proven to be a much harder nut to crack than they expected before utility line surveys and geotech.
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
Design. Centre Street has proven to be a much harder nut to crack than they expected before utility line surveys and geotech.
Joborule
Active Member
Is that why costs to even 64th seem to be pretty pricy than considering the ease of how it looks externally? It feels like the estimates to go that far, should be to get it to about 96th or North Pointe instead.
accord1999
Active Member
The challenge and cost of going up Centre Street N is why I think the next extension must be laser-focused on going to 64th only. I don't want a replay of 2017, where they supposedly get enough money to go in both directions but future circumstances changes that and the Green Line team gets to decide to go further south again because they can't afford to reach a useful northern terminus.
Even if the next Green Line grants reaches $1.5B, Stage 2 must be to 64th, Stage 3 can be whatever.
Cowtown
Senior Member
I get the frustration, but keep in mind that Calgary built their first LRT line a full 40 years before Ottawa, and Calgary was a significantly smaller city at the time. Rail system projects go in phases for different cities at different times, and cities tend to leapfrog each other because of that. I totally agree, this project should have moved along much faster, but when it's finished Calgary will leapfrog Ottawa. Someday later on Ottawa might end up leapfrogging Calgary, and so on.
Though, after the Green Line is completed, I don't see any more rail lines for Calgary any time soon. Some new stations and extensions, but no new lines.
whatchyyc
Active Member
Won't really need any outright new lines for a while... as long as they bother to use the capacity of the MAX routes properly lol
outoftheice
Active Member
Next rail(ish) line will be the airport link. It won't be LRVs but expect some sort of small, automated vehicle running along its own track/rail. My guess is that will be something for the early 2030s.
whatchyyc
Active Member
standard skytrain would be great... no need to reinvent the wheel
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
Yes I agree, but yeah the frustration is warranted.
I could see the Purple Line gaining traction in the late 2030s. Since it’s already half built (17 Ave SE), it would be super easy, and would interline well and easily with the Green Line at Inglewood. It will take til the late 2030s just to finish the Green Line north and south anyways.
YYCguy
Active Member
Looks like the lawsuit has been resolved in favour of Remington, but what lands do they actually still own there and is the development dead or can some form go ahead on the lands they still own?
calgaryherald.com
Author of the article:
Kevin Martin
Publishing date:
Oct 27, 2022
Calgary-based Remington Development Corp. is entitled to $163.7 million in damages over a contract breach that prevented it from constructing Rail Town north of the Stampede grounds, a judge has ruled.
In a 200-page decision released Thursday, Court of King’s Bench Justice Alice Woolley said Canadian Pacific Railway breached its contract with Remington and the province induced that breach…..
Judge orders $163 million in damages to developer that planned to build 'Rail Town' on CPR lands
CPR had agreed to sell three parcels of land to Remington in November 2002, bordering the rail line between 9 and 10 Ave. S.E.
calgaryherald.com
Judge orders $163 million in damages to developer that planned to build 'Rail Town' on CPR lands
CPR had agreed to sell three parcels of land to Remington in November 2002, bordering the rail line between 9 and 10 Ave. S.EAuthor of the article:
Kevin Martin
Publishing date:
Oct 27, 2022
Calgary-based Remington Development Corp. is entitled to $163.7 million in damages over a contract breach that prevented it from constructing Rail Town north of the Stampede grounds, a judge has ruled.
In a 200-page decision released Thursday, Court of King’s Bench Justice Alice Woolley said Canadian Pacific Railway breached its contract with Remington and the province induced that breach…..
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
EDIT: They're (CP) appealing.Looks like the lawsuit has been resolved in favour of Remington, but what lands do they actually still own there and is the development dead or can some form go ahead on the lands they still own?
Judge orders $163 million in damages to developer that planned to build 'Rail Town' on CPR lands
CPR had agreed to sell three parcels of land to Remington in November 2002, bordering the rail line between 9 and 10 Ave. S.E.
Judge orders $163 million in damages to developer that planned to build 'Rail Town' on CPR lands
CPR had agreed to sell three parcels of land to Remington in November 2002, bordering the rail line between 9 and 10 Ave. S.E
Author of the article:
Kevin Martin
Publishing date:
Oct 27, 2022
Calgary-based Remington Development Corp. is entitled to $163.7 million in damages over a contract breach that prevented it from constructing Rail Town north of the Stampede grounds, a judge has ruled.
In a 200-page decision released Thursday, Court of King’s Bench Justice Alice Woolley said Canadian Pacific Railway breached its contract with Remington and the province induced that breach…..
Wow very interesting, I always blamed Remington and the economy for this flaming out.
From the article:
“Unbeknownst to Remington, however, by early fall 2006, the province had approached CPR about purchasing the 10th Ave. Lands,” she wrote.
“The province sought the 10th Ave. Lands … as part of its ongoing long-term effort to acquire lands for the potential construction of a high-speed rail link between Edmonton and Calgary.”
The province offered CPR more money than Remington did in 2002 and in doing so induced the breach of contract, Woolley ruled.
The province was just out there outbidding developers for a pie in the sky high-speed rail line.
Also in the article:
had retained IBI (Group) as a consultant for its development project in the three parcels,” the judge said.
“IBI created concept plans for Rail Town, a mixed-use development with high-density commercial and residential buildings across the three parcels, integrated green space, and connection between the 9th Ave. Lands and the 10th Ave. Lands by way of two plus 30 bridges over the CPR main line.”
I never knew they owned property on both sides of the tracks, I always thought it was only south of the tracks.
Who owns this property now, the province I assume? Does Remington own any of the land that is now the Jeff Davison parking lot?
Last edited:
Roaring Flames
Senior Member
The land Remington does own is the parking lot and presumably the lands to the north of the CP Tracks. The land the article is referring to is the land north of the parking lot on the south side of the CP tracks
outoftheice
Active Member
This lawsuit is one of the main reasons the alignment of Green Line changed from the originally proposed 10th Ave/12th Ave curved alignment. The lawsuit was adding way too much project uncertainty. Of course everyone assumed at the time that construction would be underway well before the lawsuit was resolved so this is a bit of an ironic twist.
I took a ride on the Ottawa LRT this week, and it made think of the Green Line, and comparisons between our system and theirs.
- The underground stations
Ottawa's underground stations are nice and it does give a cool big city vibe, but in some ways kind of a hassle to use, especially if you're not going long distance. The time and effort it takes to walk down and through multiple stairways and hallways to get to the platform is quite onerous when you're used to simply walking over to a platform and jumping on a train. Also, u/g feels kind of disconnected from the city as you don't see anything when travelling.
The nice thing about u/g stations is they are warm in the winter. Also you can't get in without a ticket, and this appears to keep the homeless or criminal elements away.
- Free fare zone.
Ottawa's system doesn't have one, and I realized I've taken ours for granted all of these years.
- LRT Cars
The cars they are using feel more spacious. A downside of that, is that the floor levels vary within each car. I've never been a fan of that.
- Stations
The non u/g stations look and feel similar to the newer stations used in Calgary. U/G stations are different of course, and I like the way Ottawa has lit their stations brightly, including lighting the tunnel portion.
- The underground stations
Ottawa's underground stations are nice and it does give a cool big city vibe, but in some ways kind of a hassle to use, especially if you're not going long distance. The time and effort it takes to walk down and through multiple stairways and hallways to get to the platform is quite onerous when you're used to simply walking over to a platform and jumping on a train. Also, u/g feels kind of disconnected from the city as you don't see anything when travelling.
The nice thing about u/g stations is they are warm in the winter. Also you can't get in without a ticket, and this appears to keep the homeless or criminal elements away.
- Free fare zone.
Ottawa's system doesn't have one, and I realized I've taken ours for granted all of these years.
- LRT Cars
The cars they are using feel more spacious. A downside of that, is that the floor levels vary within each car. I've never been a fan of that.
- Stations
The non u/g stations look and feel similar to the newer stations used in Calgary. U/G stations are different of course, and I like the way Ottawa has lit their stations brightly, including lighting the tunnel portion.
Roaring Flames
Senior Member
I wonder how profitable small form factor retail units like the ones at New Horizon Mall would be at underground stations?
darwink
Senior Member
Negative for Calgary Transit. In the last year in the 90s, total lease and tax revenue from the private operator to Calgary Transit was ~$130,000 for 11 koisks. IIRC, the city tried to run them itself, lost money, and they were closed for good, and renovated away. A big issue was the expense to maintain washrooms/other utilities needed for someone to be there all day. That isn't even thinking about the cost to build the spaces in the first place!
Last edited: