Social Justice
Active Member
But it won't be re-examined. If anything, only the section from 16th Ave to downtown will be re-examined.
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
But it won't be re-examined. If anything, only the section from 16th Ave to downtown will be re-examined.
accord1999
Active Member
Sure, but Chu shouldn't be the only one blamed. He didn't push hard for it, but the Green Line was sold as a project where substantial portions of both the NC and SE were going to be built (and where in earlier posts, I showed the City used reasons from the NC as reasons to build the Green Line). The City messaging up to May 2017 was that the core Green Line would be Beddington to Shepard:
And that the City was still under-estimating the costs of the line (it's more like $8+ billion now from North Pointe-Seton):
Green Line LRT to be phased in, won't reach transit-starved communities for years
It’ll cost billions of dollars, include an ambitious tunnel or two, radically impact dozens of communities and — eventually — ease commutes for thousands of transi…
calgaryherald.com
There's already been calls from the Beltline Neighborhood Association, Gondek and Rempel about re-examination of the whole line; I guess we'll know how strong it is on the 29th during the meeting.
O-tac
Active Member
Shane Keating has been a fantastic ambassador for the Greenline and the driving force it seems on council. Sean Chu probably opposed it because he's Sean Chu.
O-tac
Active Member
That's precisely the problem. All these nay sayer armchair quarterbacks chiming in at the eleventh hour with completely opposite ideas from one another. Rempel wants a nose creek alignment and Woolley wants nothing less than a full fledged subway and Jim Gray wants an elevated track which Woolley vehemently opposes. We're left with a bunch of eleventh hour assholes who are tearing apart a project that had full funding from 3 levels of government that took nearly a decade to reach an agreement on. Do you see where this is going?
accord1999
Active Member
Those are not the problem, they are symptoms (or reactions) to the real problem, which is the continuing increase in the cost of the Green Line. This was the Green Line (late 2015) that was sold to politicians and the public:
It was great; if the City could just find that money, it could eliminate overcrowded buses in the NC, improve transit service to the deep SE and for $5B, it wouldn't even greatly affect downtown thanks to a substantial tunnel from north of 16th Ave N to 10 Ave SW. And the politicians did find the money, but then the Green Line exploded in costs. If the City could have stay close to budget, or at least able to build Beddington-Shepard with the tunnel for $5B, there would be far fewer calls for rethinks and pauses.
But that's the thing, it's no longer fully funded. So that's why you have these varied people having raising issues, because these compromises now being forced by the increased costs of the Green Line were never discussed in the past.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Has anyone raised the possibility of a referendum on a tax increase to pay for the green line? It’s an extremely popular project (something like 85% favourability evenly spread across all wards). I know raising taxes would make it less popular, but still potentially a majority support. It drives me crazy that even in a recession this city still has the (second?) highest median income in Canada, pays the some of the lowest taxes, has general low cost of living, and our city government is still so poor.
Also, to hell with Rempel. She’s an opposition MP in Ottawa. She’s entitled to no more say than any of the other 1.3 million Calgarians. Jim Gray as well.
Also, to hell with Rempel. She’s an opposition MP in Ottawa. She’s entitled to no more say than any of the other 1.3 million Calgarians. Jim Gray as well.
O-tac
Active Member
O-tac
Active Member
Those are not the problem, they are symptoms (or reactions) to the real problem, which is the continuing increase in the cost of the Green Line. This was the Green Line (late 2015) that was sold to politicians and the public:
It was great; if the City could just find that money, it could eliminate overcrowded buses in the NC, improve transit service to the deep SE and for $5B, it wouldn't even greatly affect downtown thanks to a substantial tunnel from north of 16th Ave N to 10 Ave SW. And the politicians did find the money, but then the Green Line exploded in costs. If the City could have stay close to budget, or at least able to build Beddington-Shepard with the tunnel for $5B, there would be far fewer calls for rethinks and pauses.
But that's the thing, it's no longer fully funded. So that's why you have these varied people having raising issues, because these compromises now being forced by the increased costs of the Green Line were never discussed in the past.
Your argument misses one key point. Those billions of dollars in Federal and Provincial funding might not be available later. Take the money and run. The cost of construction will only increase with time.
UrbanRED
Active Member
Especially now since labour is cheaper due to the recession
MichaelS
Senior Member
This seems to imply that construction is currently cheaper than it previously had been, which is a direct contradiction to the statement O-tac makes in your quote. Not picking on you with this, just pointing out that "construction costs will only increase" is not a 100% certainty.
O-tac
Active Member
How does his statement contradict mine? Cheaper labour rates are one of the things I was referring to with costs increasing over time.
UrbanRED
Active Member
It doesn't contradict. O-tac's statement was saying that things are low right now, so they can be expected to increase over time. Not that construction costs have increased every year ever.
MichaelS
Senior Member
Well, I guess I see his statement as a prediction that this is as low as it is going to get, and there is absolutely no way it will ever be lower than this. I am not sure that is accurate, and saying so should be qualified as such.
Perhaps waiting to rethink things will not only result in a better alignment or first phase, but perhaps cheaper costs as well.
Perhaps waiting to rethink things will not only result in a better alignment or first phase, but perhaps cheaper costs as well.
MichaelS
Senior Member
The Notice of Motion approved by Council today:
Also apparently they will re-look at the 9th Avenue NE station in Crescent Heights.
Also apparently they will re-look at the 9th Avenue NE station in Crescent Heights.
O-tac
Active Member
'We must get project credibility back': Green Line project won't be paused
calgaryherald.com
The door is still open to pause it by 2020 if it isn't sorted out but it will have to be an epic screw up for that to happen. All in all this seems the most level headed response.
'We must get project credibility back': Green Line project won't be paused
The Green Line project won’t be paused, but city staff say they will review the downtown alignment and bring in independent experts to review plans before construct…
calgaryherald.com
The door is still open to pause it by 2020 if it isn't sorted out but it will have to be an epic screw up for that to happen. All in all this seems the most level headed response.