accord1999
Active Member
During the height of the public bickering, the Green Line still only claimed that each month of delay added $1.5M to the capital costs, not the $100+M we have seen.
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
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accord1999
Active Member
But that's for over 3 million passenger-trips a day, enabling travel to all parts of the city and even beyond. Green Line Stage 1 will be lucky to get the claimed 32K trips/day and will have little to no benefit to 95% of the population.
Sorry to reply to an old comment, but I thought this is why the cars are 42m in the first place - you can fit two of them on a N-S block when (lol, I mean if) this thing ever goes up Centre St.
These blocks are 100 m from centre line to centre line. With roads, 84 m from corner to corner doesn't sound too far off.
ByeByeBaby
Active Member
That article is from March 2021; I can think of one thing that's changed since then:
Not the only element to be sure, but I wonder how much this contributes.
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darwink
Senior Member
The city accumulates additional reserves most years, and does not 'prebook' projections of outside contributions into reserves.
There is also, you know, raising revenue to pay for things, as the city portion of the Green Line already is.
accord1999
Active Member
Looking at the Google maps of Highfield, it's a pretty small plot and probably can't maintain and store much more than the dozen or so cars they only need for the new Stage 1.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I guess I also wonder if we should just relax for a bit. Work on keeping the lights on and maintenance (that pipe will probably continually be an issue). City building never stops but personally I kind of feel like we're a bit out over our skis fiscally. I don't feel like people are really calling for anymore city shaping projects. And like I said I don't actually think any project like that is just sitting there waiting. The province looks like it is going to take the regional and provincial rail thing on so that shouldn't burden the city.
I'm sure the next mayor or council will come in with some new ideas but maybe time for this set to go through the motions a bit and be boring until the next election.
kora
Active Member
Do we know when construction starts?
whatchyyc
Active Member
Should start this fall with things picking up in the 2025 construction season according to the green line board chair
Ramsayite
Active Member
The point isn't a comparison like-for-like of service, otherwise, I would have included the hundreds of billions of dollars of road infrastructure and the additional billions per year in maintenance and the additional billions per year in ecological destruction, and the additional billions per year in supplementary infrastructure that cost more due to sprawl, and the additional billions in healthcare costs and so on to go with the 3million passenger trips.
Not my point. The point is that $6 billion is actually a pretty fractional cost when talking about citywide transportation.
The point is that when billions of dollars of expenses for some one mode (cars) is divided across individuals as personal transactions it obfuscates our ability to compare that to alternate modes wherein that money is pooled instead. And this creates a natural sticker shock bias where we are totally surprised by big projects like this one and completely unaware that we are spending multiple times this yearly quite easily on transportation.
Tl;Dr calgarians and Albertans at large have a shit ton of money to spend and are already uncritically spending it on the least efficient and least scalable form of transportation while balking at the alternatives and calling it critical thinking.
I have a feeling that ridership on this stub-way will drop off hard south of Inglewood.
Like Sunnyside, I think Inglewood will have a mix of residents (which should increase with ToD), and people just visiting the neighbourhood for food, drink, music, trips to the Esker, etc.
Also I noticed that https://maps.calgary.ca/greenline/ is still showing 4 St SE underground, still has Centre Street, and still shows the stations south of Lynnwood.
Like Sunnyside, I think Inglewood will have a mix of residents (which should increase with ToD), and people just visiting the neighbourhood for food, drink, music, trips to the Esker, etc.
Also I noticed that https://maps.calgary.ca/greenline/ is still showing 4 St SE underground, still has Centre Street, and still shows the stations south of Lynnwood.
ahuch
Active Member
It will, but I'm also assuming the city will try and re-jig current bus routes and force them to get on the train at Lynnwood. So in essence we may actually be making some of those express bus routes worse and multi-mode compared to today.I have a feeling that ridership on this stub-way will drop off hard south of Inglewood.
Like Sunnyside, I think Inglewood will have a mix of residents (which should increase with ToD), and people just visiting the neighbourhood for food, drink, music, trips to the Esker, etc.
Also I noticed that https://maps.calgary.ca/greenline/ is still showing 4 St SE underground, still has Centre Street, and still shows the stations south of Lynnwood.
whatchyyc
Active Member
I probably wouldn't mind. I bet it saves an enormous amount of time to loop around at Millican rather than roll around downtown in traffic
Albertasaurus
Active Member
It'll be interesting to see if the projected ridership of ~32,000 people a day ends up being accurate. While a drop in the bucket by Calgary's ridership numbers, that's about equal to Phoenix's entire LRT network (42 km) and substantially higher than the ridership for the entire LRT networks in St Louis, Charlotte, San Jose, Pittsburgh and others. It blows my mind how low transit ridership is down in the US.
I am skeptical as to how many people will take an express bus to Lynnwood and then transfer to the train. In my admittedly anecdotal discussions with people, having to transfer is often a deal breaker when it comes to transit, as it adds substantially to the travel time (sometimes for real, sometimes perceived) - but enough to deter many riders. However, as others have outlined, at least this gets the core of the line built.
I am skeptical as to how many people will take an express bus to Lynnwood and then transfer to the train. In my admittedly anecdotal discussions with people, having to transfer is often a deal breaker when it comes to transit, as it adds substantially to the travel time (sometimes for real, sometimes perceived) - but enough to deter many riders. However, as others have outlined, at least this gets the core of the line built.
Ramsayite
Active Member
Park and ride here is about 250x300ft of parking.
That's about 278 stalls by my math. Not a ton.
A bus transfer here will probably account for the greatest ridership. I think it's reasonable that a transfer would ultimately save time. Average speed on Ogden Rd is going to be much slower than the train, Plus some bottlenecks at blackfoot and then possible freight train interference if one is cutting through Ramsay.
In fact, the dedicated grade separated right-of-way over the south freight line is perhaps one of the most relevant facts about this project. It is possible to come via this route and get stuck at the nvrlnd or traffic circle crossing for 30 minutes in a car or bus. Or get jammed up on Blackfoot due to gridlock from the same. Green line will bypass that conflict.
That's about 278 stalls by my math. Not a ton.
A bus transfer here will probably account for the greatest ridership. I think it's reasonable that a transfer would ultimately save time. Average speed on Ogden Rd is going to be much slower than the train, Plus some bottlenecks at blackfoot and then possible freight train interference if one is cutting through Ramsay.
In fact, the dedicated grade separated right-of-way over the south freight line is perhaps one of the most relevant facts about this project. It is possible to come via this route and get stuck at the nvrlnd or traffic circle crossing for 30 minutes in a car or bus. Or get jammed up on Blackfoot due to gridlock from the same. Green line will bypass that conflict.
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