[Ramsayite]

Bad news: they already bought a bunch of low floor trains.

It's not just the green line, the entire Max purple BRT was built into a right-of-way that's designed to be converted to LRT in the future, with low floor being the only option there too.

Because low floor LRT is genuinely better at providing service in urban areas. You only have to look at the current LRT vehicles on the red and blue line to understand how much the vehicle design influences the right of way and station design and therefore f***s up the streetscape everywhere it touches.

 

[whatchyyc]

At least there's this

(The LRV design is more than just being low floor)

 

[O-tac]

I see two more quite reasonable options:

1. Go at-ground in Downtown with transit-priority signals (most likely with slightly altered route - for example 3rd ave SW instead of the 2nd and a short tunnel or overpass between CP mainline and 6th ave SW). Later can be replaced with a tunnel with reusing the at-ground line for a different LRT project.

2. Build a line from Seton - Shepard and then along Deerfoot and Anderson road to Anderson station of the red line. Then build the extension to downtown and convert the spur between Shepard and Anderson to a separate connector line with a possible extension further west. (This options adds LRT where it is needed most)

I haven’t taken the lrt from Anderson in many years but when I did trains were full by the time they arrived at Canyon Meadows. Doesn’t seem feasible to connect to an already congested line.

 

[Red Star]

It's not just the green line, the entire Max purple BRT was built into a right-of-way that's designed to be converted to LRT in the future, with low floor being the only option there too.

Because low floor LRT is genuinely better at providing service in urban areas. You only have to look at the current LRT vehicles on the red and blue line to understand how much the vehicle design influences the right of way and station design and therefore f***s up the streetscape everywhere it touches.

I think the North-Central line is perfect for Low-floor LRT vehicles.

The SE LRT could get away with using the traditional high-floor LRTs since much of it utilizes a CPR train corridor as it's right of way.

 

[badc0ffee]

The SE LRT could get away with using the traditional high-floor LRTs since much of it utilizes a CPR train corridor as it's right of way.

Or a private ROW along streets like 52 St SE, just like we have near Martindale and Saddletowne.

 

[accord1999]

I haven’t taken the lrt from Anderson in many years but when I did trains were full by the time they arrived at Canyon Meadows. Doesn’t seem feasible to connect to an already congested line.

However, for the time being the Ctrain is limited to 3-cars due to upgrades at Haysboro and it doesn't appear that even during rush hour that the trains are overloaded despite record monthly ridership numbers. I think usage is now less concentrated going to DT, more spread out through the day and higher on weekends so that when 4-cars are available again, there should be at least several thousand passengers/hour of capacity that could be used for a SE line.

 

[darwink]

for the time being the Ctrain is limited to 3-cars due to upgrades at Haysboro

Or not buying enough cars, LOL.

 

[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

Trains take a long time to procure, just like building the tracks. Also it wasn't Bombardier (who no longer build trains, only business jets since about 10 years ago) it was CAF, a large spanish train manufacturer. Like any contract, I am sure there's a cancellation clause if you decide to not want the trains anymore.

We had years of the low-floor/high-floor debate, and now it almost seems like a red herring - either could work just fine, but wasting a bunch of time debating the pros/cons cost so much more than the difference between either option.

Oh OK, didn't realize a different manufacturer was involved, I haven't followed the green line project too closely since I moved. Turns out CAF made the trains used on the Kaohsiung LRT which I've used a few times recently. They're nice units, but they are smaller and sort of awkward inside with the covered wheel humps.

Their LRT line is also not a crosstown commuter line, but a circular one that is more focused on connecting the more tourist/traveler oriented sites.

For Calgary green line, I'm not so hung up on high vs low floor as much as automatable or not.
Underground stations will be expensive no mater what style of train car is used, and suburban stations won't be much different whether they have a one foot curb or a two foot one.

But a fully grade separated automatable LRT can provide much better service levels than a mixed traffic streetcar can, and if your plan involves running the train underground due to the expected usage, then IMO it isn't a streetcar...

Now, if there was a simple way to bridge the gap between Purple BRT 17av SE and Beltline 17av, that might be a compelling use case for a streetcar!

 

[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

Or not buying enough cars, LOL.

And this is where even ALRT is no guarantee of good service. The Bangkok skytrain has gotten worse and worse over the years as they've expanded the lines, but doesn't seem like they've added more trainsets! 10 minute waits are pretty bad on a system that should be capable of a 2 minute frequency. So much transit investment there, but the results are still frustrating and dysfunctional..

 

[LostinSpace]

If covid has changed transit patterns. What would be better?

Phase 1a. Build Seton to a underground station at the new arena while it’s under construction (ie cheaper) then some sort of temp connection on 4th SE to a new station inbetween city hall and Bridgeland?

Or build this stubway?

Phase 1b. I think Calgary should cut its downtown tunneling teeth on the much shallower and widely used Red Line 8th Ave tunnel which frees up capacity on 7th for the Green Line. Connect Blue Line to Airport (no system change, still high floor)

Phase 2a. Complete Underground section from new arena to 64th Avenue where the roads were planned for LRT, Create Calgary’s new urban densification area.

Phase 2b. Connect the airport leg of the Blue Line at 96th station and future high speed rail to the green line which is then built fully out north to Stoney.

 

[darwink]

And this is where even ALRT is no guarantee of good service. The Bangkok skytrain has gotten worse and worse over the years as they've expanded the lines, but doesn't seem like they've added more trainsets! 10 minute waits are pretty bad on a system that should be capable of a 2 minute frequency. So much transit investment there, but the results are still frustrating and dysfunctional..

The Canada Line in Vancouver suffers from this yet as well so many transit enthusiasts just revert back to talking points from 20 years ago and call it under built. Even with 80m platforms, it would suffer from minor crowding due to not enough rolling stock.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

if your plan involves running the train underground due to the expected usage

It isn't expected usage that has forced it underground. It is the CP rail line (need to go over or under), 7th Ave (need to go over or under) and the +15 (need to go under). You cannot navigate all those obstacles on the ground or even in the air without tight turns (nearly impossible) and going very high (the required clearance for the CP rail line is very high).

I'm hoping the Grand Central the province is teasing caps the CP rail line east of 4th Street SE. Could make for a cool link between VP and EV.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

It isn't expected usage that has forced it underground. It is the CP rail line (need to go over or under), 7th Ave (need to go over or under) and the +15 (need to go under). You cannot navigate all those obstacles on the ground or even in the air without tight turns (nearly impossible) and going very high (the required clearance for the CP rail line is very high).

I'm hoping the Grand Central the province is teasing caps the CP rail line east of 4th Street SE. Could make for a cool link between VP and EV.

7th Ave separation is nice-to-have but not need-to-have, IMO.

I can't imagine the CP rail being capped in any way; not only does it have the same type of constraints east of 4th St SE (it needs to go over or under the Elbow River), freight trains are much less manoeuvrable than LRT, and CP has no need to do anything they don't want to.

 

[darwink]

7th Ave separation is nice-to-have but not need-to-have, IMO.

Problem is block lengths in general and the crossing, which all together make a surface station running north-south quite difficult.

Also, despite everything, it isn't only about cost. You want capacity and speed/travel time improvements. Those are what you are paying for, not the aesthetics of using a higher order mode.

 

[Mountain Man]

How much time is lost on 7th having the train at grade stopping at traffic lights? how many incidents are there with cars or people? How much more work do they have to do to those tracks compared to what would be required in a tunnel? The idea of running any of the green line at grade downtown is just bonkers to me.