darwink
Senior Member
My understanding is that this is basically the plan but the funding arrangement will act like they are different.
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- Thread starter Oddball
- Start date
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
Can you explain the difference between double track and separate track?
CalgaryTraveller
New Member
Double track would be two lines running parallel to each other, typically with ~14' between track centers with one railroad in charge of the traffic running on both tracks. If it was separate tracks, CPKC would be responsible for traffic on their track and Liricon would be responsible for the traffic on theirs. This would likely require a wider right of way for the second to be built.
In the second scenario, CPKC would want to keep extra separation for a few reasons. The ability to run dimensional (wide) loads, option for their own future expansion, and space on the sides of their track to perform work.
In the second scenario, CPKC would want to keep extra separation for a few reasons. The ability to run dimensional (wide) loads, option for their own future expansion, and space on the sides of their track to perform work.
darwink
Senior Member
Yeah. Sharing tracks is the name of the game! The financial deal works by 'leasing' the ROW with extra capacity provided to CPKC. At the end of the 30-50 years, the AB government which has been paying availability payments either takes ownership and re-leases it out (affirmage) to recover some costs or recovers some costs by selling the enterprise to CPKC with iron clad track rights or a requirement to operate the service. Since the tracks and ROW works have an amortization period of 50 to 100 years, the entire thing enables financial recycling.
An earlier phase of the proposal had the project under perpetual private ownership, but the AB Gov couldn't get its head around subsidizing private infrastructure at a much lower cost versus buying the asset themselves. Even if the service was exactly the same.
C'est la vie.
An earlier phase of the proposal had the project under perpetual private ownership, but the AB Gov couldn't get its head around subsidizing private infrastructure at a much lower cost versus buying the asset themselves. Even if the service was exactly the same.
C'est la vie.
Nawads
Active Member
Note sure which thread is best for this. But been seeing ads lately from tourism calgary trying to encourage more people to vistit without renting a car which is nice.
Roaring Flames
Senior Member
I'm going to guess Banff -> Calgary -> "airport" (actually a station near the blue ring).
adamyyc
Active Member
Are there studies indicating which corridor would have the greatest economic impact?
Selfishly, I want funding to go to Calgary > Banff, but I suspect Calgary > Edmonton would be more beneficial to the economy.
Selfishly, I want funding to go to Calgary > Banff, but I suspect Calgary > Edmonton would be more beneficial to the economy.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
Alberta’s vision for passenger rail
Alberta’s government will develop a Passenger Rail Master Plan as the foundation to advancing passenger rail in the province.
www.alberta.ca
The government’s vision is for an Alberta passenger rail system that includes public, private or hybrid passenger rail, including:
- a commuter rail system for the Calgary area that connects surrounding communities and the Calgary International Airport to downtown;
- a commuter rail system for the Edmonton area that connects surrounding communities and the Edmonton International Airport to downtown;
- regional rail lines from Calgary and Edmonton to the Rocky Mountain parks;
- a regional rail line between Calgary and Edmonton, with a local transit hub in Red Deer;
- municipal-led LRT systems in Calgary and Edmonton that integrate with the provincial passenger rail system; and
- rail hubs serving the major cities that would provide linkages between a commuter rail system, regional rail routes and municipal-led mass transit systems.
The Master Plan will take into account future growth, planning for the growing provincial population and considering the use of hydrogen-powered trains to ensure a robust and effective passenger rail system to serve Albertans for years to come.
Development of the Master Plan will include engagement with Albertans to gain their perspectives for the future of passenger rail in Alberta.
Alberta’s government has released a Request for Expression of Interest to seek world-class knowledge and consultant services as a first step toward the development of the Passenger Rail Master Plan for Alberta. Following this process, a Request for Proposal will be issued to select a consultant to develop the Passenger Rail Master Plan. The Master Plan is expected to be completed by summer 2025.
In summary:
Liricon can pound sand as there will be a centrally developed and managed rail service using hydrogen trains that we won't really get any details on until next summer.
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trtcttc
Active Member
Excited by this proposal and obviously the timelines are far far away, but haven't some of these been studied before? Especially the Edmonton/Calgary links. Seems like we are restudying, expanding the scope, and delaying any actual shovels in the ground.Alberta’s vision for passenger rail
Alberta’s government will develop a Passenger Rail Master Plan as the foundation to advancing passenger rail in the province.
The government’s vision is for an Alberta passenger rail system that includes public, private or hybrid passenger rail, including:
The vision includes a province-led “Metrolinx-like” Crown corporation with a mandate to develop the infrastructure and oversee daily operations, fare collection/booking systems, system maintenance, and planning for future system expansion.
- a commuter rail system for the Calgary area that connects surrounding communities and the Calgary International Airport to downtown;
- a commuter rail system for the Edmonton area that connects surrounding communities and the Edmonton International Airport to downtown;
- regional rail lines from Calgary and Edmonton to the Rocky Mountain parks;
- a regional rail line between Calgary and Edmonton, with a local transit hub in Red Deer;
- municipal-led LRT systems in Calgary and Edmonton that integrate with the provincial passenger rail system; and
- rail hubs serving the major cities that would provide linkages between a commuter rail system, regional rail routes and municipal-led mass transit systems.
The Master Plan will take into account future growth, planning for the growing provincial population and considering the use of hydrogen-powered trains to ensure a robust and effective passenger rail system to serve Albertans for years to come.
Development of the Master Plan will include engagement with Albertans to gain their perspectives for the future of passenger rail in Alberta.
Alberta’s government has released a Request for Expression of Interest to seek world-class knowledge and consultant services as a first step toward the development of the Passenger Rail Master Plan for Alberta. Following this process, a Request for Proposal will be issued to select a consultant to develop the Passenger Rail Master Plan. The Master Plan is expected to be completed by summer 2025.
It's interesting the province wants a commuter style service like the GO Train in Calgary and Edmonton, despite the recent shifts of economic development away from downtowns and 9-5 commuting patterns. And arguably the Ctrain is already a commuter service outside of the core, with highway median stations and park and rides. Seems like they could've used some input from ministers and MLAs that actually live in Calgary/Edmonton.
Dārayavauš
Active Member
Considering the growth outside of Calgary in neighbouring communities, it makes sense to have a GO train style system
darwink
Senior Member
It all depends. Calgary and Edmonton is a much larger project, with a larger benefit in past studies.
Both Calgary-Edmonton and Calgary-Banff can be what in some places are called 'freestanding projects'. By farebox alone they can pay for their expenses. What they need is "derisking" a regulatory framework for approval and land acquisition which doesn't eat itself.
Calgary-airport requires subsidy, but if both larger projects are coordinated, likely a much much smaller one.
KrisYYC
New Member
Selfishly hoping the train to Calgary International Airport is the first to get the go ahead 
adamyyc
Active Member
Surprisingly ambitious announcement from the Provincial Government.
First order of business should be to pass legislation controlling development adjacent to the Laggan, Red Deer and Leduc CPKC lines, and the Edson CN line to protect expansion/parallelling for the regional components, and any other existing spoke corridors from Calgary & Edmonton for the commuter rail components.
First order of business should be to pass legislation controlling development adjacent to the Laggan, Red Deer and Leduc CPKC lines, and the Edson CN line to protect expansion/parallelling for the regional components, and any other existing spoke corridors from Calgary & Edmonton for the commuter rail components.
darwink
Senior Member
If you fire up spin I think you’ll find CN and CPKC having expansion room to quad track on most if not all the corridors that that they don’t already share with LRT