[darwink]

Yeah, new hotel investment tied to transportation demand management would be the vision imo.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Adding on to what @JasperTF said, I think rail transit to the parks could have some important environmental and economic impacts beyond the obvious (insert typical transit vs cars stats on hydrocarbon combustion).

1) Visitors would arriving by train would be more densely concentrated around station areas. This may reduce impact to the broader park and allow for development near the station that would otherwise be impossible.

2) Hwy 1 is way to variable when it comes to weather, accidents, and delays. As the only way through the pass, who knows how many countless hours of human life have been wasted to delays.

3) International tourists do not want to drive here if they can avoid it. Also, they are coming from places like Europe, Japan, and China where they are already very comfortable travelling by rail.

4) If there is a stomach for higher density development in Canmore or Banff, we are going to have to dissuade extensive vehicle use in these high density developments. If you could stack 700 people (probably hotel guests) into an acre in Banff, you are looking at creating ~$100M in property appreciation for that acre, and possibly grossing $60k per room annually. That's a hypothetical $42M gross annual revenue (excluding externalities) for the cost of 1 acre.

Another likely long-term impact would be the development of TOD nodes near the stations at Lake Louise, Banff, Canmore, and Cochrane, due to their fixed commuter connection to Downtown Calgary.

 

[AccUnit]

I was thinking about rail to Banff last time I was there. Driving in that town become stressful with the amount of traffic and pedestrians and that was in November. How sweet would it be to just hop on a train enjoy a nice ride up the bow Valley and then be in Banff stress free. It feels like a no brainer with the amount of tourists and potential for commuter routes but I suppose the appetite isn't quite there yet. That being said it's encouraging that studies and assessments of feasibility are being made.

 

[darwink]

Studies + private money and the Infrastructure Bank. Hopefully there is movement in the next year.

 

[hollahollaholla]

I was thinking about rail to Banff last time I was there. Driving in that town become stressful with the amount of traffic and pedestrians and that was in November. How sweet would it be to just hop on a train enjoy a nice ride up the bow Valley and then be in Banff stress free. It feels like a no brainer with the amount of tourists and potential for commuter routes but I suppose the appetite isn't quite there yet. That being said it's encouraging that studies and assessments of feasibility are being made.

Write counsellors. Make your voice heard. Talk to Jaspertf with Alberta Regional Rail. Commuter rail has been planned for decades but hasn't really been taken seriously but if voices are heard and people demand it than it can't be ignored. I've talked to countless amounts of people about a rail line to Airdrie and have never gotten a negative response.

I know a lot of people here support the idea of commuter/regional rail but what are you actively doing to support it?

 

[AccUnit]

Write counsellors. Make your voice heard. Talk to Jaspertf with Alberta Regional Rail. Commuter rail has been planned for decades but hasn't really been taken seriously but if voices are heard and people demand it than it can't be ignored. I've talked to countless amounts of people about a rail line to Airdrie and have never gotten a negative response.

I know a lot of people here support the idea of commuter/regional rail but what are you actively doing to support it?

I see what you are saying in that we have to create the change we want and agree with you, if there is a petition to sign or vote to place or politician to support who is aligned with this I'm there but the cold reality is that there are many things I and most other people want before this. I'm not minimizing the importance of regional rail because I do support it but it's just not the most important thing. Speaking of a line to Airdrie, how is the bus route doing? Are the routes full and expanding? Are the buses bursting at the seam? I'm not being facetious but to me that is what will turn the tide, when ridership demonstrates need.

 

[hollahollaholla]

I see what you are saying in that we have to create the change we want and agree with you, if there is a petition to sign or vote to place or politician to support who is aligned with this I'm there but the cold reality is that there are many things I and most other people want before this. I'm not minimizing the importance of regional rail because I do support it but it's just not the most important thing. Speaking of a line to Airdrie, how is the bus route doing? Are the routes full and expanding? Are the buses bursting at the seam? I'm not being facetious but to me that is what will turn the tide, when ridership demonstrates need.

The buses weren't bursting at the seam for the Green Line and they decided to skip a bus transitway. As far as I have first hand seen the ICE does well and is generally full when I see them. But have you looked at the routes and times for them? They suck. I understand the heirarchy of transit mentality of expand roads, bus, bigger bus, rapid bus, train etc. However Airdrie is supposed to grow to 100k people in less than 20 years and there is no viable transit or personal transit other than Deerfoot. A train literally checks off everything they want from land use and transit in the Airdrie City Plan. It complements environmental, sustainable, denser, walkable deveolpement.

If Airdrie were to be growing slower yes I would advocate building a better bus system...actually they should still have a better bus system to help support a rail system. Calgary started the Ctrain when it really didn't need to against conventional knowledge and now it's one of the most widely used systems in North America and comparable to many European systems in terms of ridership. We know how to build better cities we just aren't.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

The buses weren't bursting at the seam for the Green Line and they decided to skip a bus transitway. As far as I have first hand seen the ICE does well and is generally full when I see them. But have you looked at the routes and times for them? They suck. I understand the heirarchy of transit mentality of expand roads, bus, bigger bus, rapid bus, train etc. However Airdrie is supposed to grow to 100k people in less than 20 years and there is no viable transit or personal transit other than Deerfoot. A train literally checks off everything they want from land use and transit in the Airdrie City Plan. It complements environmental, sustainable, denser, walkable deveolpement.

If Airdrie were to be growing slower yes I would advocate building a better bus system...actually they should still have a better bus system to help support a rail system. Calgary started the Ctrain when it really didn't need to against conventional knowledge and now it's one of the most widely used systems in North America and comparable to many European systems in terms of ridership. We know how to build better cities we just aren't.

What do you mean that the routes for ICE suck? Other than being generally dismissive? I'll admit the service is confusing, but one thing it offers is near door-to-door service; it stops locally and avoids the first and last mile problem.

Sure, ICE buses are reasonably full, all seven of them a morning. That's 400 or so people. There are more buses in 10 minutes on Centre Street in the morning -- just as full -- as there are on the full morning ICE service.

The West Coast Express has a service area of 350,000 people and only modest (10K/day) ridership. Even though Airdrie is growing quickly, it will reach that population sometime between 2050 and never.

 

[hollahollaholla]

What do you mean that the routes for ICE suck? Other than being generally dismissive? I'll admit the service is confusing, but one thing it offers is near door-to-door service; it stops locally and avoids the first and last mile problem.

Sure, ICE buses are reasonably full, all seven of them a morning. That's 400 or so people. There are more buses in 10 minutes on Centre Street in the morning -- just as full -- as there are on the full morning ICE service.

The West Coast Express has a service area of 350,000 people and only modest (10K/day) ridership. Even though Airdrie is growing quickly, it will reach that population sometime between 2050 and never.

The 901 and 902 have to work around rush hour so they dont get caught in traffic. The latest bus you can catch is from the South Transit Terminal and leaves at 7:52. I would hardly say that either of them offer anything remotely close to a door to door service. If you were to catch the last South Terminal bus it would still take about 40 minutes to reach Calgary. The Airdrie transportation master plan talks about how Airdrie provides the least amount of service and has the lowest ridership compared to other similar sized cities in Canada. They offer shitty service, they get shitty results.

The West Coast Express is an interesting example because yes it covers a larger catchment area but those areas are better served by skytrain. I dunno if you've looked at the city boundary for Coquitlam but it goes from Siwash Island all the way down to IKEA. Not much of it makes sense for them to take the WCE, the stations arent where people are and now those places have skytrain. Also the train has a windy path along the inlet/river and goes slower, I used to take it from Port Moody.

Obviously population and density is important but so are where people are travelling to. Calgary's downtown has much more employees than Vancouver and I can't remember the exact number but around 20% of non transit users and 45% of transit users are going downtown from Airdrie. Also the majority of them live in South Airdrie near the terminal so the city is starved for transit. A more central transit station that's easier to access is better, I'm sure there could even be a couple rail stations in Airdrie.

Melbourne for example has an extensive rail network as with most other major cities in Australia. There are towns with under 3k people that get V/line service and Metro Trains have other similar sized stations in towns. There is a tangeble benefit to using railways to spur better growth and development patterns. I don't hate cars, but I do hate that a lot of our planning and land use decisions are still like the 60s.

 

[JasperTF]

What do you mean that the routes for ICE suck? Other than being generally dismissive? I'll admit the service is confusing, but one thing it offers is near door-to-door service; it stops locally and avoids the first and last mile problem.

Sure, ICE buses are reasonably full, all seven of them a morning. That's 400 or so people. There are more buses in 10 minutes on Centre Street in the morning -- just as full -- as there are on the full morning ICE service.

The West Coast Express has a service area of 350,000 people and only modest (10K/day) ridership. Even though Airdrie is growing quickly, it will reach that population sometime between 2050 and never.

Airdrie operates approximately 13 buses on 5 routes, according to the Airdrie Transportation Master Plan, at a population of 65,000 Airdrie Transit should be operating 40 buses with 2 Park & Ride lots. The population of Airdrie in the 2018 census was 68,091. The ICE buses crawl along in the gridlock that is Deerfoot during rush-hour.
Apart from buying ever more buses, there is only 1 way to improve the ICE bus service, construction of HOV/dedicated bus lanes, ie adding more lanes to Deerfoot Trail. The recent 2.5km BRT route on 17 Ave cost CAD 181million.

Over the past few years Denver RTD has been adding HOV lanes in phases to Interstates and principle Highways, specifically US36 (Boulder Turnpike) into downtown Denver that the FlatIron Flyer bus service uses:
Phase 1 - Downtown Denver to US36, barrier separated reversible HOV lane, 10.6km total USD 228million.
Phase 2 - US36 extension, barrier separated reversible HOV lane, 4km total USD 148million.
Phase 3 - US36 extension, HOV lane in each direction, 17km total USD 497million.
Distance from Airdrie to Calgary is 21km.

Twinning the existing CP track between Airdrie and Calgary, and other infrastructure including purchase of rolling stock, to operate a train each way every 15 mins during rush-hour periods would cost less than CAD 400million. Even at a train speed of 130kph the journey would be made in less than 25 mins, verses more than 50 mins by bus, current technology would allow train speeds of 160kph or more resulting in a journey time of less than 20 mins.

Transportation theory with a steady and manageable population growth allows for development of bus services, but Airdrie has been going through exceptional and accelerated population growth. What we say is that instead of wasting time expanding the bussing, lets jump straight to rail.

 

[darwink]

Still have to deal with downtown access. Not just simple twinning.

 

[JasperTF]

Still have to deal with downtown access. Not just simple twinning.

A slight redesign of the existing station facility at the base of the Calgary Tower, creating a 3-line freight by-pass in one zone and a 2 line island platform in the other. Using low-floor platforms and low-floor CFR compliant trains would allow intermixing of freight and passenger service.

All specifications and basic station layouts can be found at:
https://www.albertaregionalrail.com/

 

[JasperTF]

Created these for the submission to Designs Talks Movement Call for Ideas with the help of hollahollaholla.
Interested in comments and feedback.

 

[Rollerstud98]

I bet Airdrie would grow even faster if we got rail transit especially if it went straight downtown. We need to get our rail grade separated first! That should be happening in the next couple years I believe though. At least on Yankee Valley Blvd.

 

[Surrealplaces]

I bet Airdrie would grow even faster if we got rail transit especially if it went straight downtown. We need to get our rail grade separated first! That should be happening in the next couple years I believe though. At least on Yankee Valley Blvd.

Agreed. Airdrie would have two good arteries of transportation direct into the city. Also with all of the development around the airport, I see that area as a future jobs hub (even more than it is now) and Airdrie's not that far from that area.