[KensingtonLurker]

I like it!

I'm also not as bearish about others about additional development happening. There is the hotel to the West, but I could see another one or two hotels getting going, as proximity to the expanded BMO likely makes sense for more rooms.

I've also heard that there could be some movement on a few East Village sites and if they fill in, then the next logical spot would be across the tracks.

 

[Ramsayite]

Okay I'm mainly bullshitting, but hear me out. Green line station is underground, parkade is underground, community rink is underground

So connect the three with a heated/AC concourse and mall with connections to future developments. Add a second street level. Not as a replacement above but in addition to.

Could serve as a north stampede entrance too if extended a bit south.

Thinking of the pedestrian integration in and around Shinjuku-Sanchome in Tokyo and especially Tochomae

Or does this replicate the problem of the +15 network?

Anyway it's obviously too ambitious for Calgary but I thought some of you might find it amusing to consider also.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

People, especially younger adults, in high density like to live near amenities, that is proven across north america. Transit, food, entertainment...where the action is. The arena events, the plaza, community arena (CSEC is using only from 10am-2pm probably, so plenty of public use), restaurants, food hall....is going to do some heavy foot traffic lifting on its own, which the current arena does not. A single hotel on 4th, plus a single development on 12th ave, that alone will do wonders for the Rivers. Sure the whole area will take time, but the 24hour, 365 change with this arena design will be noticeable

When I read this, I think about Cowboys, they're really on an island in the Casino, having other bars nearby should really help them as people hop between them.

 

[Canadian 001]

The database file needs to be Updated massively

-The New Renderings
-Moving Current Renderings to 'Previous Design'
-Renaming the Database File AND thread to 'Scotia Centre'

 

[FCC1982]

 

[CBBarnett]

People, especially younger adults, in high density like to live near amenities, that is proven across north america. Transit, food, entertainment...where the action is. The arena events, the plaza, community arena (CSEC is using only from 10am-2pm probably, so plenty of public use), restaurants, food hall....is going to do some heavy foot traffic lifting on its own, which the current arena does not. A single hotel on 4th, plus a single development on 12th ave, that alone will do wonders for the Rivers. Sure the whole area will take time, but the 24hour, 365 change with this arena design will be noticeable

I would be curious on how much extra traffic occurs daily and yearly in the area. Food halls and restaurants can be a draw, but we got 3 or 4 bar/restaurant districts already nearby that are already well established, and far better located near housing, commuter routes and where people work.

On non-game days, what's the incentive to go to this new cluster of food hall and restaurants instead? 4 or 5 bars and restaurants are a start, but not nearly enough to make a destination on their own. Something like a Rec Room would help a lot as a one-off, but you'd need a bunch more good quality stuff to compete with even a small strip like 1st Street.

On game days it's a different story. The arena will see the same traffic as today's Saddledome as it'll be roughly the same seating capacity + a few more concerts that now won't skip town due to Saddledome limitations (a claim that has often been made during this arena saga).

The public community rink will be a net gain in activity, attracting some people that wouldn't normally come to the area, particularly at times of day not usually busy for Stampede. Some of those will also spill into the retail to help keep the lights on when events are not going.

BMO Centre will be interesting complement. A larger facility may yield larger events, but will it yield more events/people? That will determine how big the opportunities for spillover traffic to help the bars and restaurants on the arena podium on non-game days.

The area remains optimized for major events only, to the detriment of all other activities that help build a 24/7/365 kind of district that people want to see. The arena doesn't change that in itself.

In the longer run - if actual development occurs and a Green Line actually exists - this will the be biggest difference on keep foot traffic high in the area. Housing (i.e. thousands of units) and much more retail will be the ultimate solution to get to that 24/7/365

 

[adamyyc]

If the City could find a way to calm McLeod Trail, I think that would be one of the most impactful ways to encourage people to visit the area outside of events. It remains a barrier. Unfortunately I don’t know there’s a way to convert the one ways north of 25 Ave SE, but if I had my way, the east fork would be two ways with fewer lanes.

 

[darwink]

Anyway it's obviously too ambitious for Calgary but I thought some of you might find it amusing to consider also.

To do it safely would require such a large scale to be impractical imo.

 

[maestro]

People, especially younger adults, in high density like to live near amenities, that is proven across north america. Transit, food, entertainment...where the action is. The arena events, the plaza, community arena (CSEC is using only from 10am-2pm probably, so plenty of public use), restaurants, food hall....is going to do some heavy foot traffic lifting on its own, which the current arena does not. A single hotel on 4th, plus a single development on 12th ave, that alone will do wonders for the Rivers. Sure the whole area will take time, but the 24hour, 365 change with this arena design will be noticeable

The Flames is the reason for this being built and it's not much of a community amenity when it attracts users from all over Southern Alberta making prices inaffordable for young apartment dwellers to attend more than a few times a year. The rest of the proposed offerings are great in integrating a large building that sits vacant a large part of time into the future urban community. The public amenities can be develop without the NHL sized arena at a small fraction of the price. Private businesses like restaurants and food kiosks are unlikely to be successful on stadium attendees alone. I don't know if the city or province has any interest in contributing to accelerate the mixed use developments around the stadium. The arena isn't that much of a sales pitch

 

[Tothewest]

I would be curious on how much extra traffic occurs daily and yearly in the area. Food halls and restaurants can be a draw, but we got 3 or 4 bar/restaurant districts already nearby that are already well established, and far better located near housing, commuter routes and where people work.

On non-game days, what's the incentive to go to this new cluster of food hall and restaurants instead? 4 or 5 bars and restaurants are a start, but not nearly enough to make a destination on their own. Something like a Rec Room would help a lot as a one-off, but you'd need a bunch more good quality stuff to compete with even a small strip like 1st Street.

On game days it's a different story. The arena will see the same traffic as today's Saddledome as it'll be roughly the same seating capacity + a few more concerts that now won't skip town due to Saddledome limitations (a claim that has often been made during this arena saga).

The public community rink will be a net gain in activity, attracting some people that wouldn't normally come to the area, particularly at times of day not usually busy for Stampede. Some of those will also spill into the retail to help keep the lights on when events are not going.

BMO Centre will be interesting complement. A larger facility may yield larger events, but will it yield more events/people? That will determine how big the opportunities for spillover traffic to help the bars and restaurants on the arena podium on non-game days.

The area remains optimized for major events only, to the detriment of all other activities that help build a 24/7/365 kind of district that people want to see. The arena doesn't change that in itself.

In the longer run - if actual development occurs and a Green Line actually exists - this will the be biggest difference on keep foot traffic high in the area. Housing (i.e. thousands of units) and much more retail will be the ultimate solution to get to that 24/7/365

This is an easy comparison to Edmonton. Previously, people drove to rexall, and left. There was nothing to do in the immediate vicinity of the arena. The Saddledome (or presently the BMO) is no different, can you park somewhere else to eat then drive to the game/event/convention, sure, but the minute you have to park twice many just dont do it. Now, any restaurant or bar within 4 blocks of Rogers Place is packed before games, and many are busy after. They have made it very convenient for people to socialize before and after games.

The area remains optimized for major events only, to the detriment of all other activities that help build a 24/7/365 kind of district that people want to see. The arena doesn't change that in itself.

In the longer run - if actual development occurs and a Green Line actually exists - this will the be biggest difference on keep foot traffic high in the area. Housing (i.e. thousands of units) and much more retail will be the ultimate solution to get to that 24/7/365

I dont understand what you mean by major events only? What else exactly are you looking for? BMO has tons of small events that draw 100-2000 people many days a week, let alone home shows/boat shows/ect. You're going to have a community arena that brings 300 people through every night of the week, an outdoor plaza with a skating rink, the main arena itself will have probably 290 event nights a year, a casino next door....literally 3-4 venues bringing people to the area every day of the week, there is nothing else you could put there that brings foot traffic to spur development.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

a 24/7/365 kind of district

I don't know if it is possible but outside of Stampede the Event Centre will be quiet in the summer, I'd like to see the Surge play out of here in the summer. They did the one game to start this season and it was a huge success (CEBL record). Even if it is 5000 people that's people that were not there before.

I wonder what the new arena can do to bring the city some sporting events. I assume a World Junior's is a done deal but looking at the NHL Calendar Winter 2028 is supposed to be a World Cup of Hockey, would be cool to get some prelim games here with perhaps the final in Vancouver? I also assume we get a All-Star Game at some point too. What other events come to this type of facilities? UFC?

I don't know if the city or province has any interest in contributing to accelerate the mixed use developments around the stadium.

This thing is already so heavily subsidized they cannot do more. The promise of wide spread economic impact is not going to happen. 10 years later all Rogers Place in Edmonton created was what the team Owner built. Nothing else has been realized. I would expect a similar impact here. Unless the land value is so low it justifies a UD level of build out with maybe one more high-rise condo.

 

[maestro]

I dont understand what you mean by major events only? What else exactly are you looking for? BMO has tons of small events that draw 100-2000 people many days a week, let alone home shows/boat shows/ect. You're going to have a community arena that brings 300 people through every night of the week, an outdoor plaza with a skating rink, the main arena itself will have probably 290 event nights a year, a casino next door....literally 3-4 venues bringing people to the area every day of the week, there is nothing else you could put there that brings foot traffic to spur development.

There are certainly cheaper options in generating foot traffic to make a place desirable for real estate investment. It's one hour before an event and a few hours afterwards as foot traffic will be non existent during the event. It's like rush hour which is universally agreed upon as time constraint vibrancy.

Big cities want class AA cultural facilities for class AA programs that cost class AA dollars in which a fraction of a percent of the population can see live at one time. At least a hockey arena seats eight times more than an opera house.

 

[CBBarnett]

I don't know if it is possible but outside of Stampede the Event Centre will be quiet in the summer, I'd like to see the Surge play out of here in the summer. They did the one game to start this season and it was a huge success (CEBL record). Even if it is 5000 people that's people that were not there before.

I wonder what the new arena can do to bring the city some sporting events. I assume a World Junior's is a done deal but looking at the NHL Calendar Winter 2028 is supposed to be a World Cup of Hockey, would be cool to get some prelim games here with perhaps the final in Vancouver? I also assume we get a All-Star Game at some point too. What other events come to this type of facilities? UFC?


This thing is already so heavily subsidized they cannot do more. The promise of wide spread economic impact is not going to happen. 10 years later all Rogers Place in Edmonton created was what the team Owner built. Nothing else has been realized. I would expect a similar impact here. Unless the land value is so low it justifies a UD level of build out with maybe one more high-rise condo.

This hits at the whole thing about economic benefit for the arena - we already have that economic benefit of a major event centre in the area. For the past 40 years, about 20,000 people would visit Victoria Park occasionally and spend money on local bars, restaurants. The new arena's economic pitch was always incremental (e.g. get people to spend a bit more money each visit, have a few more events that bring more people down over time than currently).

As you said so yourself - we already have lots of big event traffic and the area remains a dead zone most of the time. That's because big events aren't good at creating a 24/7/365 entertainment district on their own, they are the event equivalent of office-only 9 to 5 sterile office districts. Arena's - shiny new ones or old outdated ones - don't help you solve this meaningfully. We should be critical of claims otherwise.

Similarly there's still no evidence that this $1B+ in public subsidy between the arena and convention centre will result in meaningful development at a scale that would help fill the gaps and start to create that 24/7/365 entertainment district. Unless another development we haven't heard of starts soon, on opening day in 2028 you'll have an attractive, new, modern, sleek - but ultimately similar - situation to today's setup in the area (from an economic development perspective). Therefore, I don't see evidence that much will change regardless of how great this latest design is.

 

[outoftheice]

Apparently they require $8 million more than budgeted to ensure proper sound insulation to meet bylaw requirements. Instead of going over budget, they are just changing the noise bylaw

Proposed Calgary noise bylaw change to keep Event Centre on time, on budget - LiveWire Calgary

Calgary’s Event Centre construction timelines expedited a request to change a noise bylaw for the area, all but eliminating public consultation on the topic, a city committee heard. A proposed amendment to the City of Calgary’s Community Standards bylaw that came to the July 24 Community...

livewirecalgary.com

 

[Tothewest]

There are certainly cheaper options in generating foot traffic to make a place desirable for real estate investment. It's one hour before an event and a few hours afterwards as foot traffic will be non existent during the event. It's like rush hour which is universally agreed upon as time constraint vibrancy.

Big cities want class AA cultural facilities for class AA programs that cost class AA dollars in which a fraction of a percent of the population can see live at one time. At least a hockey arena seats eight times more than an opera house.

This hits at the whole thing about economic benefit for the arena - we already have that economic benefit of a major event centre in the area. For the past 40 years, about 20,000 people would visit Victoria Park occasionally and spend money on local bars, restaurants. The new arena's economic pitch was always incremental (e.g. get people to spend a bit more money each visit, have a few more events that bring more people down over time than currently).

As you said so yourself - we already have lots of big event traffic and the area remains a dead zone most of the time. That's because big events aren't good at creating a 24/7/365 entertainment district on their own, they are the event equivalent of office-only 9 to 5 sterile office districts. Arena's - shiny new ones or old outdated ones - don't help you solve this meaningfully. We should be critical of claims otherwise.

Similarly there's still no evidence that this $1B+ in public subsidy between the arena and convention centre will result in meaningful development at a scale that would help fill the gaps and start to create that 24/7/365 entertainment district. Unless another development we haven't heard of starts soon, on opening day in 2028 you'll have an attractive, new, modern, sleek - but ultimately similar - situation to today's setup in the area (from an economic development perspective). Therefore, I don't see evidence that much will change regardless of how great this latest design is.

These are exhausting to unpack. For a second, pretend the flames left tomorrow, no NHL/AHL/WHL/NLL team. What's your plan for the Rivers/Saddledome....