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Notably, during this era, LRT expansion was always imagined as a commuter service and linked entirely to major transportation projects (i.e. Roads) in general. That's why we ended up with Crowchild Trail LRT/freeway upgrades throughout the 1990s and 2000s. In one sense, that's logical - combining road and LRT grade-separation is probably a bit cheaper than if each had their own separate programs. But the downside is LRT is now stuck in ugly, unsafe, loud corridors with limited redevelopment potential due to the sheer size of the right-of-way for the highways that surround it. The assumption that LRT is only about mobility was the main fallacy here - totally undercuts the upside of rapid transit if you don't account for the land use.
As a side note, I recall the traditional 50/50 capital funding ratio between roads and transit included the Crowchild Trail freeway interchanges in the "transit" side of the funding pie since they were being done in conjunction with the LRT extension.
 
As a side note, I recall the traditional 50/50 capital funding ratio between roads and transit included the Crowchild Trail freeway interchanges in the "transit" side of the funding pie since they were being done in conjunction with the LRT extension.
Lol of course they did. Spend transit money to speed up the speed and capacity of the mode you are directly competing with. It's a "bus bays are transit infrastructure" fallacy at a scale of hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
Fancy transit to the airport is one of those things that is popular, but not all that useful. Everybody thinks it's a good idea, but the actual market when push comes to shove is small:
  • Travelling here for business? Your time is too valuable to figure out niche transit services, just spend the company's money on a taxi or Uber.
  • Travelling here to meet family or friends? They probably don't live downtown, so you'd have to connect to another random transit service, plus they likely have a car and are picking you up.
  • Travelling here in a group? That $11 fare adds up quickly; pretty soon it's comparable to taking a taxi, but with more hassle. If you have kids, you definitely want to have them in a cab rather than trying to keep them calm on a bus (and paying more than taxi for your trip).
  • Travelling alone, on a holiday? You just spent four hours and hundreds of bucks cooped up in a plane; what's another 20 or 30 to save the hassle and just get to your hotel?
  • Living here and travelling from the north suburbs? Why would you go out of your way south all the way to downtown to catch transit back past your house to the airport?
  • Living here and travelling from the south suburbs? It's a 20-30 minute drive directly to the airport. By the time you shlep downtown to catch the bus, it's not really worth it.
  • Living here and travelling from work downtown? You're a business traveller, just take a cab and expense it.
Yes, airports in major European cities get good transit use. That's because they are cities with dense populations, and high quality transit networks, so there are plenty of people who don't have a car or don't regularly drive but have enough money to travel. In fact, they're typically dense enough that it's feasible for public transit to be as fast as driving to the downtown.


On the Montreal case, there are a few things I agree with, but the service to Lionel-Groulx is not downtown service in any meaningful sense; it's a kilometre and a half from Concordia, which is about as far west as you could consider downtown (and Montreal's downtown is a long east-west one; the middle of downtown is at least two kilometres from Lionel-Groulx). The way the roads go, Lionel-Groulx is roughly as close a station to the airport as any other It could be compared to Calgary's 100, which goes to McKnight Westwinds in 22 minutes (only 4 minutes more than by car) and which in theory has like 6 or 7 stops but I'd be shocked if it actually stopped more than twice on any given trip. But the 100's headway also sucks, every 30 minutes.

I also disagree with the implicit suggestion that people want to get to an arbitrary point downtown, and that's it. Especially the City Hall LRT station, which is not the most salubrious area, and more importantly, isn't near any hotels. Who wants to drag their bag several blocks in the winter to get to their hotel? Here's the downtown hotels (cyan) and 300 stops (magenta). The City Hall stop is noticable because it's the one that's the furthest from any hotels.
View attachment 459480
The 300 has problems -- both the unacceptable headways and the lack of good information -- but stopping a few times downtown so it's near the hotels is not one of the problems IMO.

As a side note, here's two current transit maps; which one was made by a city that invests in and wants you to take transit? Which one would entice you as a visitor? Which city employs a professional graphic designer?
View attachment 459486View attachment 459487

I suspect the point of the 300 is to provide better transit service on a corridor that actually uses it, while saying we provide transit to the airport because people don't actually take transit to the airport, and so they don't know or care if it's good, as long as it's been advertised. In a way, it's genius -- it provides service that gets real ridership without actually costing the money for near-empty buses to speed down the Deerfoot. I'm not sure that taking service off of our best corridor to serve a market that isn't likely to take transit is actually a good deal.

But if we were to go with the cover story that the point of the 300 is airport service, then a direct route does make more sense. Right now, the 300 is scheduled for 90 minute round trips, with 38 or so round trips a day. That's 57 service hours of transit. If the route went on Deerfoot (it could bypass traffic on the shoulder in the peaks), it could be scheduled as a 60 minute trip; roughly 17-18 minutes each way to and from the airport, 18 minutes or so for the downtown loop, and 5-8 minutes of break time at the airport. That reschedule would permit 20 minute headways from 5 AM to midnight (instead of the current 30 minutes) for the same cost, which is in the order of magnitude of $3M per year. For about 10% more, that could add hourly overnight service. For 20% more, half hourly overnight. For 50% more, 15 minute headways all day and 30 minutes overnight. Sure, that's an extra $1.5 million dollars a year, which is only, what, 1000 years or so, give or take a few centuries of improved service for the cost of an airport train.

For our city at this time, what we need is the basics executed well. Remove the hassle as much as possible, through clear wayfinding and good promotional materials. This is on both ends - there should be a visible, high quality shelter at the downtown locations with a countdown timer and ticket machine in it.

What about the 24,000 people who work at the airport?

Lots of us would much rather take transit to work if it was served by LRT and not some "express" bus that seems more of an afterthought and is still slow as hell.

I'm not saying airport staff taking transit would be enough to justify it, but it should be considered too.
 
What about the 24,000 people who work at the airport?

Lots of us would much rather take transit to work if it was served by LRT and not some "express" bus that seems more of an afterthought and is still slow as hell.

I'm not saying airport staff taking transit would be enough to justify it, but it should be considered too.
A line to the airport would be great for employees for sure. When I’ve taken the Canada line to Vancouver airport, there were a lot of employees on the train. Same for the rail line that goes to Atlanta Hartfield. I’m assuming it would probably be similar here.
 
What about the 24,000 people who work at the airport?

Lots of us would much rather take transit to work if it was served by LRT and not some "express" bus that seems more of an afterthought and is still slow as hell.

I'm not saying airport staff taking transit would be enough to justify it, but it should be considered too.
Airport staff taking transit is by far a stronger case for transit than for visitors. Multiply 24,000 (a high number -- plenty of airport workers don't work in the terminal itself) by 250 work days a year and 2 trips a day (to and from work) and you have 12 million, which is not that incomparable to the ~15 million passengers served.

But I don't think many of the staff are well served by a premium-priced express route to the downtown which is what I was talking about in the post you quote. Sure, if you live at Heritage or Westbrook that would dramatically improve your commute. But my impression -- and if you work there you may know better than me -- is that most airport workers live in the northeast and north central. (If you are like a turbojet mechanic or run a deicer there isn't anywhere else in the city you could possibly work, so why not live close. If you work at the Tim Horton's, you probably don't live in Mahogany since there are 1000 closer ones you could work at.)

Here's the distribution of workers in the transportation sector (which does include more than just pure transportation):
1705790885640.png



Just because something is on rails doesn't mean it can't be a slow as hell afterthought, I assure you. Good connections -- whether that's a beefed up, frequent route 100 bus or something on rails like the proposed people mover to future LRT extensions -- make sense, particularly for people in the communities nearest the airport, but also to provide a reasonable transit connection that people elsewhere in the city can get to. Running an expensive train downtown to where the workers aren't so that rich travellers can take an Uber anyway makes a lot less sense.
 
What about the 24,000 people who work at the airport?

Lots of us would much rather take transit to work if it was served by LRT and not some "express" bus that seems more of an afterthought and is still slow as hell.

I'm not saying airport staff taking transit would be enough to justify it, but it should be considered too.
So there are some particular things about airport employees re: transit demand
1) they don’t all work at the terminal
2) they have very varied hours
3) many have free or subsidized parking

Those things make it hard for a service to serve them en mass.

It’s been years since I investigated mode share for YVR, but mid last decade if you assumed every Canada line trip was a pax trip, transit mode share to YVR was still below 20%.

Airports are bad transit trip generators. The main benefit to YVR is that transport economics of road traffic means you don’t need to reduce road demand by much to keep things way more functional than before.
 
But I don't think many of the staff are well served by a premium-priced express route to the downtown which is what I was talking about in the post you quote.

I know that’s not really the overall point of your post, but the Route 300 is regular fare now from the airport. There’s no longer a premium cost.
 
Pretty unimpressed with the rebuild of Victoria Park Station. It’s extremely bare bones (two very small shelters), and you might say “well that facilitates the high volume of people flowing through during stampede” no it doesn’t, because they positioned the outdoor benches parallel with the tracks, rather than perpendicular (which would actually facilitate easier pedestrian flows).

4F8D979D-D047-468B-803A-9B7598D79664.jpeg
AEF2995B-BDB9-4629-8C1A-CE8AD43E3D65.jpeg
 
Even just having the benches positioned correctly would have made it half decent and excused the bare-ness of the thing.
 
The problem is that everyone is assuming this is a transit project, rather than a more nebulous "event district" placemaking/connectivity one.

As a transit project it does a few things right:
  • Simpler, more accessible platforms
  • Shiny, new, clean
As a placemaking project, it checks off some other boxes, but the main cost and effort is a the 17th Ave Extension, which is antithetical to transit quality and service by adding an at-grade crossing that will inevitably slow transit service. It’s a good placemaking project as it’s new, fresh and part of the narrative to support an event district.

so taken together, it’s very underwhelming as a transit project. We spent a bunch of money on “transit” and get a new version of a station we had before, but with less reliability and more at-grade accidents.

Same disconnect between the sales pitch and the product occurred in the 17th Ave SW “upgrades” - the problem people assumed it was as sold - a street scape improvement project. But was always just about the utilities.
 
I was on the design consulting side of the project and I'm not sure what the main goal was. Maybe it started as a placemaking project, but CT started throwing in their requests. So from where I am sitting, it seems more like a backbone infrastructure/operations improvement. There is rumor of a hotel being built on the old Weadickville grounds, which would compliment the BMO expansion. Its too bad the BMO does not have street level store fronts to better activate the space though.

Operationally (or for future maintainability), there were a few wins:
  • new utility complex consolidates signals and comms outside of the ROW and moved it away from the station head
  • removal of the pedestrian overpass allowed for the OCS to be at a consistent height, reducing wear on the wire and pantograph
  • the diamond crossover just before the CP tunnel allows them to single track at the station without impacting 7 Ave
  • a refresh of some very old wayside hardware, that were rusting for the last 40+ years. (ie. signals hardware, OCS poles, anything else impacted by the flood)
  • siding bridge over Elbow river lets them park a 4-car train during events
And to CBBarnett's point, transit users will not notice any of these improvements, as it will not improve service or frequency. I think originally, it was a Stampede Org request to get 17 Ave built. CT would have never asked for a new at-grade crossing, and I don't think it really benefits the City either.
Thanks for those details, always appreciate the insider perspective. If I recall correctly, wasn't the storage track partially required because train throughput would be reduced due to the new conflict at grade? I can see CT wanting to reduce the cost of operating interior spaces in the old station design too - of course, as hundreds of transit agencies around the planet prove daily, there's multiple ways to resolve issues with interior spaces that don't add an at-grade crossing and a full station rebuild project.

Also many of those engineering outcomes don't seem like the reason for a project - just a to-do list of maintenance and operations improvements we needed to do at some point but might as well do now, given a project exists.

It's not a hill to die on, and I like a shiny new station as good as anyone, but I really wish CT won more on this one. I want to see them really start championing a "big city" transit mandate about militantly advocating for speed, capacity, and reliability of their network, and winning those battles.
 
speed, capacity, and reliability
Have council give them that mandate, including to push back on initiatives counter to that, and you'll see it.

More so, we just need a Councillor to appoint themself to this role. Become the transit person.
 
This might be a contrarian view but I quite like the design. The old station was a suburban style station that required an overpass to enter the station. The development isn't there but once projects like the Stampede Station is built on the West side of Macleod, and other projects, the new street level interface is much more pedestrian friendly. The trains will have transit priority that the delay would be minor and definitely less than the time it takes to go up and down the old bridge. I do think they could've gone with a better station design. The canopy looks nice in renderings but could've been more functional.
 
I think the biggest win is simply the new platforms during crush crowd moments such as Stampede and following hockey games. The old centre-loading platform was always packed in almost a dangerous fashion during these events as both southbound and northbound riders crowded onto the same platform. The platform was also extremely narrow where the escalators exited. The new station design separates southbound and northbound riders and each individual platform is wider than the old centre loading platform. That makes a huge difference. Plus there's access points from both the north and south ends which is also a plus.
 

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