[lemongrab]

I think the best outcome would be CP moving out of downtown like railroads have already been doing in other cities, then burying tracks for exclusively passenger rail service. Pipe dream: Blow up the bunker at the base of the Calgary Tower and build something new with a passenger rail hub that isn't just a gloomy basement

This would be cool; tough topography to re-route that west leg though. My best sim-rail:

From Cochrane, NE up BigHill Creek to Township Road 264 (just south of BigHill Springs Park) - there is already some sort of excavation/quarry/grading thing nearby - no idea what it is, but it might be prime to help grade the way up away from the creek.

From there it should be a fairly straight shot ESE to just north of where HWY 566/772 meet, and then on to just south of Balzac to rejoin the N/S tracks. Would be about 33km of new track; ~52km from Cochrane to Inglewood railyard vs. ~42km using current route (though shorter for anything coming to/from the north).

Obviously a ton of landowners involved, but it would be pretty much entirely farmland with a wide berth to any other residential/industrial. The biggest challenge would be the 1A/22 interchange that is about to built (maybe already started?) In the previous intersection form you could've basically tunnelled under diagonally, but much tougher now. You'd probably have to start building elevation as you pass the new 'Heartland' community and go over top of everything (since you're about to gain elevation anyways). I don't know anything about the Cochrane RancheHouse, but they are the stakeholder that would be most directly impacted by this idea.

I'll play around with a bypass route to the south, but I think it would be a lot longer with more obstacles.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

Moving the CP freight trains out of downtown and re-outing them is a nice thought however the cost of all this is prohibitive. Who is going to pay ... the city or the province? I don't see the federal government lending a hand. With Green line and other infrastructure investments on the horizon, this initiative would be way down on the list.

 

[darwink]

Rumour mill Monday:

In the fall a $200 million plus post secondary investment in downtown evaporated due to provincial maneuvering at the last minute. This is what the fights between the different levels of government have been alluding to.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

I think the best outcome would be CP moving out of downtown like railroads have already been doing in other cities, then burying tracks for exclusively passenger rail service. Pipe dream: Blow up the bunker at the base of the Calgary Tower and build something new with a passenger rail hub that isn't just a gloomy basement

I think removing the tracks is a long shot, so much infrastructure is set aside for those tracks that I think the best solution is doing some "green bridges" (like they have over the Trans Canada in the national park) over the tracks and burying them above ground in a way.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Yeah I don’t see the tracks ever being moved. It was much easier in Edmonton and Saskatoon because of a lack of geographic constraints. Edmonton also was able to just shift it north to the enormous rail yard that already existed near the Yellowhead in the city.

If Downtown Toronto still has freight going through it (which it does despite there being parallel tracks north in the city), I don’t see us ever having ours moved. At least not in any of our lifetimes.

A decent possibility would be for the city to allow density and/or parking relaxations, possibly combined with tax incentives, to developers along the rail tracks in exchange for them contributing public accesses and a portion of funding to a linear park above the tracks. Similar to how the +15 network was established. Such a linear park could also include the top level of the major parking garages along the tracks such as already exists at ‘High Park’ on Tenth.

A hefty undertaking of course, but it’s our only chance to somewhat cover the tracks within the core (between 5 St SE and 13/12 St SW).

 

[YourBoy007]

I think digging a tunnel through downtown would be far cheaper and less disruptive. I realize it would be a good chunk of change, but worth it. They could put the money they were gonna invest in to the 11th St SW overpass into the tunnel project. Yeah, the train tracks probably aren't the biggest problem, but certainly make the top 10 list. Devolopers would go wild if saw the train tracks disappear. If the city is serious about revitalizing downtown, they need to realize their little grant programs aren't gonna do fuck all and that in a globalist society, we are competing with every other big city. We need several mega-projects and significant policy change right now.

 

[Roaring Flames]

I think if anything the City should work with CP (or whatever they are calling themselves now after merging with Kansas City Southern) to come up with a long term plan for the inner city freight corridor.

 

[Mountain Man]

CP owns the land and have stated in the past that they have no intention of moving. It would be great to see the tracks gone, but it's not going to happen in my lifetime.

 

[CBBarnett]

I think digging a tunnel through downtown would be far cheaper and less disruptive. I realize it would be a good chunk of change, but worth it. They could put the money they were gonna invest in to the 11th St SW overpass into the tunnel project. Yeah, the train tracks probably aren't the biggest problem, but certainly make the top 10 list. Devolopers would go wild if saw the train tracks disappear. If the city is serious about revitalizing downtown, they need to realize their little grant programs aren't gonna do fuck all and that in a globalist society, we are competing with every other big city. We need several mega-projects and significant policy change right now.

CP owns the land and have stated in the past that they have no intention of moving. It would be great to see the tracks gone, but it's not going to happen in my lifetime.

As big of a game-changer this would be, if we are going to go to trouble to to bury some tracks downtown we should think about the downtown LRT lines. I'd like to see the LRT system build a long-range plan to materially improve travel time, reduce collisions, and just become a faster and more resilient system, not just only build new lines and extensions (although that's important too). Grade separation downtown is big part of that story.

The CP tracks are largely grade-separated already and can be boxed in over time with development as they have been with more and more grade-separations added over time to lessen the barrier effect. If we stop over-building all of our downtown underpasses with huge car capacity, we could afford lots more of them, particularly pedestrians and cycling underpasses that don't require the same vertical depth. Little reason almost every Downtown / Beltline street can't be reconnected as long as the cost is reasonable enough. Minimalist pedestrian and cycling underpasses would cost a fraction of rerouting the whole rail corridor and offer most of the same benefits.

Of course, keeping the CP doesn't solve the long-term risk of moving huge volumes of potentially dangerous materials through the core - nor does it free up part of this corridor for an efficient high-quality regional rail system node. But I don't really see how the freight tracks would ever move given their importance in the national freight system and lack of reasonable alternative routes. Short of some terrible freight train crash disaster that triggers the political will for billions to go into a permanent re-routing, I don't see how the CP tracks will ever leave.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

The CP tracks are largely grade-separated already and can be boxed in over time with development as they have been with more and more grade-separations added over time to lessen the barrier effect. If we stop over-building all of our downtown underpasses with huge car capacity, we could afford lots more of them, particularly pedestrians and cycling underpasses that don't require the same vertical depth. Little reason almost every Downtown / Beltline street can't be reconnected as long as the cost is reasonable enough. Minimalist pedestrian and cycling underpasses would cost a fraction of rerouting the whole rail corridor and offer most of the same benefits.

I'm curious, is it cheaper to go under the tracks or over? I assume there's a reason that nothing but some parking structures go over the tracks, I just don't know that reason. It must be cost, I just don't know that for sure. I'd like to see them be effectively buried by building up and over them, I envision something like the High Line in New York but understand that's a pipe dream. Just imagine connecting the Riverwalk in the east to the Bow River pathway in the west...

 

[MissingMiddle]

Toronto is working on it, with the recent CIBC Square, and proposals like Union Park and Rail Deck Park/ORCA.

There's a couple specific problems. One is that their corridor is pretty wide, meaning they require vertical supports to reduce spans, and that those columns have to withstand a potential train impact. They're only allowed to do construction during off-schedule hours, which is only a couple in the middle of every night. Vibrations are a large challenge, and covering the corridor creates a tunnel effect for the sound coming out, effectively turning the whole thing into a woodwind instrument for whoever resides at the ends.

Generally, the cost to construct parkland over the railway is exorbitant relative to constructing new parks literally anywhere else, so the money just isn't seen as worth it. Since Toronto cares about money so much they should focus on demolishking the Gardiner. All in all, it's probably about 10 years out for them to realistically get going on it.

I can certainly see Calgary experiencing this same thing, but we'll need a much higher population and subsequent demand. Our railway corridor is narrower, so that should help quite a bit. If we manage to meaningfully transition away from non-renewable resources, I'd expect covering the CP tracks in an elevated park to be a serious discussion in 20-25 years. Enough time to see Toronto attempt it, and for us to fill in our sea of parking lots. The single biggest factor is what happens to the non-renewable energy industry in the next two decades, and where we choose to hitch our wagon.

 

[heightjunkie]

Rumour mill Monday:

In the fall a $200 million plus post secondary investment in downtown evaporated due to provincial maneuvering at the last minute. This is what the fights between the different levels of government have been alluding to.

I heard about this potential investment but never what happened to it. Absolutely infuriating.

 

[Surrealplaces]

I think digging a tunnel through downtown would be far cheaper and less disruptive. I realize it would be a good chunk of change, but worth it. They could put the money they were gonna invest in to the 11th St SW overpass into the tunnel project. Yeah, the train tracks probably aren't the biggest problem, but certainly make the top 10 list. Devolopers would go wild if saw the train tracks disappear. If the city is serious about revitalizing downtown, they need to realize their little grant programs aren't gonna do fuck all and that in a globalist society, we are competing with every other big city. We need several mega-projects and significant policy change right now.

I like the idea of the tunnel, but might have an issue with hazardous materials.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Unquestionably a problem with hazardous materials. The same shit the obliterated Beirut and Tianjin within the last 10 years travels through our downtown core on a weekly, if not daily, basis. The option is simply nonexistent. Again, if Toronto can’t do it, we can’t, for identical reasons, except that they have an actual budget and investment interest in this, which we absolutely do not and will not for a long time.

To that point though, in the above comments about torontos rail deck parks; our rail corridor is 1/4 as wide as theirs, largely negating the seismic support cost constraints, along with far fewer people and businesses at either end now and projected in the future. The possibility of it happening here is far more tenable, just less likely due to lack of investment.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Toronto is working on it, with the recent CIBC Square

This is all we need, covering the whole of the tracks isn't realistic... I just had a wild idea when looking for places where this could happen:

Make the current southbound lanes of Macleod Trail two-way traffic north of the Elbow River crossing. This frees up the northbound lanes to become multi-modal or a "complete street" from the Elbow River Crossing to either 7th Ave (Olympic Plaza) or north even further to RiverWalk. This will make northbound Macleod Trail looking something like this:

We've all talked about wanting to green Macleod trail, well here's our chance (at least for this portion). If you're asking about how to keep traffic moving, because if traffic isn't moving this will not happen (cars must still matter)? I think you just do the dreaded lane reversal on the current southbound lanes. I would actually like to completely shut down car traffic on the current northbound lanes but with the fire station at 18 Ave there still needs to be some street access so they can enter and exit the station safely.

The complete street on the northbound lanes will still allow personal vehicle access, but on a more "local traffic" level. There's bus access to the Red Line station, dedicated bike lanes and sidewalks from the Elbow River pathway through to RiverWalk, and a green corridor for the Culture and Entertainment District. I think this would be a huge selling feature for development of the C+E.

With a complete street and green corridor running from the Elbow River to the RiverWalk, you'll need a way to bridge the CP Tracks. What I propose is something like what they've done with CIBC Square in Toronto. It could fit pretty nicely between south and northbound Macleod trail (complete street) and 9th and 10 Ave SE:

Keep the personal vehicle and bus traffic going under the tracks while you build a green bridge over the tracks for bikes and pedestrians (hopefully jointly with a developer, c'mon CMLC do your work) using the parking lots to the west of the northbound lanes of Macleod. You could even deny personal vehicles from using the underpass and only allow buses and fire trucks to truly make the complete street open to local traffic only. You would likely have to redo the Macleod southbound underpass but its probably becoming time to do that anyways.

Curious what everyone's thoughts are? These are just my Wednesday morning musings...