[W. K. Lis]

convenience, I can drive anytime anywhere day or night,TTC is not as flexible,in other words, if I wanna go to the gym at 5 am, I go, I don't have to wait for a bus etc..
or worry about what schedule TTC is that day.

I just feel uncomfortable around so many people pack in so tight. when I look at a rush hour TTC bus or subway car,it's jam packed and I couldn't stand that. Gas and cars would have to be VERY expensive for me to even consider TTC.

How about safety? You will more likely survive taking public transit than taking a car.

From grist.org:

You may have heard the statistic: last year, 33,963 Americans died in motor vehicle crashes.

It's a huge number. And that's the problem. It's so huge that it's difficult to comprehend.

In a blog post yesterday, Biking in LA tried to bring that number down to a more understandable scale by putting it into the context of the Chilean miner story that has transfixed the world:

In the 10 weeks since the 33 miners were trapped ... over 6,500 people died on American streets, based on statistics from the U.S. Department of Transportation.

In the same period, roughly 850 pedestrians and 140 bicyclists were killed in motor vehicle collisions. ...

And no one even noticed.

No massive press response. No live coverage. ...

Those same statistics tell us that of the millions of people who will leave their homes today, 93 won't return. ...

It's just collateral damage. The price we've come to accept for the privilege of getting from here to there. 93 people every day. 651 every week. 2,830 every month.
​

This is one of the reasons it's so important to reform our transportation system so that fewer people have to rely on cars to go about their daily business: those 93 people who don't come home every day. Think of it as a rescue mission.

Driving a car is the most unsafe mode of transport. More children get killed being driven to school than those who walk, bike, or use the bus (school or public transit).

 

[picard102]

How about safety? You will more likely survive taking public transit than taking a car.

Do you get paid to argue with people about their choices in life or something?

 

[GraphicMatt]

Yeah, I don't really get it. There are certainly places in America where transit advocates need to win the hearts and minds of drivers and convince them that transit can be a viable alternative. But around the GTA a significant portion of the population is already convinced that transit can work for them. The demand is there - it's the infrastructure and the service that needs to be put into place.

 

[mangasparky]

I hope this thread can keep from getting hijacked by the transit spaz collective.

I think a big problem on the highway is improper spacing and chain reaction braking. Traffic can pretty much come to a stop because of some over enthusiastic brakers. Most of the time braking isn't necessary, just releasing the gas pedal should regulate speed properly. Maybe in the not so distant future cars will be more interactive with eachother and will create a more efficient system.

Also, the DVP has big slowdowns around Eglinton and Lawrence onramps. Do the traffic light controlled onramps actually improve flow? I've seen them on the QEW in Mississauga I believe.

 

[Chuck]

I'm not sure if I would ever take public transit over taking my car.I do have to drive for my job,it's a requirement,but, if I was given the choice, I would rather sit alone in my car in traffic rather than be stuck on a bus with tons of other people for the same amount of time it would take me to drive

Many companies are changing with the times. I drive a ton for my job, but instead of owning a car have opted to use Zipcar to the tune of several thousand dollars per year in rentals (100% expensable).I have the option of using my transportation allowance for a metropass, and do just that.

None of this was possible even 3 years ago, even in Toronto.

 

[archanfel]

Yeah, I don't really get it. There are certainly places in America where transit advocates need to win the hearts and minds of drivers and convince them that transit can be a viable alternative. But around the GTA a significant portion of the population is already convinced that transit can work for them. The demand is there - it's the infrastructure and the service that needs to be put into place.

Auto vs. Transit for work
Ward 28: 34% vs. 35%
Ward 20: 34% vs. 32%
Ward 27: 34% vs. 32%
Ward 22: 50% vs. 38%
Ward 25: 73% vs. 21%

For non-work, far more people drive. And these are the subway area.

Ward 02: 81% vs. 17%
Ward 42: 75% vs. 22%

But I guess some people don't consider there as Toronto. Do you care to see some GTA numbers or have I made my point?

Yes, yes, public transit is necessary and we all would like to see more people taking public transit. However, the city can't abandon its drivers which makes up the vast majority of the population. We need long term planning to make sure the city flows, by TTC, by car, by bikes, by whatever means.

 

[archanfel]

Many companies are changing with the times. I drive a ton for my job, but instead of owning a car have opted to use Zipcar to the tune of several thousand dollars per year in rentals (100% expensable).I have the option of using my transportation allowance for a metropass, and do just that.

None of this was possible even 3 years ago, even in Toronto.

Which company do you work for? Also, don't you have to declare them as taxable income?

 

[GraphicMatt]

Auto vs. Transit for work
Ward 28: 34% vs. 35%
Ward 20: 34% vs. 32%
Ward 27: 34% vs. 32%
Ward 22: 50% vs. 38%
Ward 25: 73% vs. 21%

For non-work, far more people drive. And these are the subway area.

Ward 02: 81% vs. 17%
Ward 42: 75% vs. 22%

But I guess some people don't consider there as Toronto. Do you care to see some GTA numbers or have I made my point?

Yes, yes, public transit is necessary and we all would like to see more people taking public transit. However, the city can't abandon its drivers which makes up the vast majority of the population. We need long term planning to make sure the city flows, by TTC, by car, by bikes, by whatever means.

I don't really get your point at all, to be honest. Do you think that the people of Ward 2 and Ward 42 wouldn't use transit for non-work trips if the infrastructure and service levels were in place?

 

[archanfel]

I don't really get your point at all, to be honest. Do you think that the people of Ward 2 and Ward 42 wouldn't use transit for non-work trips if the infrastructure and service levels were in place?

The point is ordinary folks in Toronto drive and Toronto is bigger than just the waterfront.

It really depend on the service level. If it's like a personal taxi service, then yes I think they will use them, but I am not sure you would be happy. Both Scarborough and Etobicoke have buses if I am not mistaken, they simply do not have the density to support more convenient public transit services like subways. If money is no issue, then I would be happy to have subways all over the city on 5 minutes schedules, but unfortunately money is an issue. Therefore, we have to acknowledge that cars have their places in Toronto (not to mention GTA) and the job of the planners should be to accommodate both public transit and drivers. More importantly, the planners need to be impartial and not have a prejudice against any particular way of travel. Rather, they should understand that public transit and cars complement each other. The ultimate goal is to move people by whatever means.

I have nothing against public transit. I take them myself whenever possible. I think they could be run more efficiently and cheaper, but that's besides the point. The problem is this city has shown contempt against drivers and this is creating a backlash. If you want the public transit to grow, you better have drivers on your side (which they should) rather than have a "war on car". I don't think such perception is totally justified. However, a leader can't just believe in an idea, he/she needs to sell it to the public. Let's face it, it's the drivers who are financing public transit, you better keep them happy.

 

[nfitz]

Which company do you work for? Also, don't you have to declare them as taxable income?

I'd think most companies are the same. If I'm at the office, and I need a car for business, I could easily take a Zipcar from a location near the office, and get it paid for. Why wouldn't a company pay for this, and why would it be taxable income?

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Saturday Star has an article on Can synchronized lights solve gridlock? at this link.

Only one problem. Toronto has had synchronized traffic lights for the past 50 years. See Traffic - Frequently Asked Questions for more information at this link.

Unless all the lights are green in all directions (impossible), the problem could be be that the direction the synchronization is in sync is opposite to where you are going, or the you are not in sync to the expected speed limit, or you have got out of sync due to obstructions or other traffic problems.

 

[toto]

While in Holland a few years back, I noticed that the highway we were travelling had electronic signs that posted the current maximum speed. It was adjusted based traffic volume. Works like a charm according to my relatives. The idea is, that it's better to keep traffic moving at a lower speed than it is to have stop and go delays. In the hour long trip we moved along at between 40 - 80Km/hr, never once coming to a full stop. Unlike most highway rides in the GTA.

Go to Dallas or Huston, to see example of how building more highways, doesn't solve gridlock. It just makes it worse. A supposedly 20 minute drive to downtown Dallas, was always more than 30 minutes and over an hour, twice. Public transit barely exists. These cities were built for cars. They are awful places to get around in without one.

 

[Electrify]

Auto vs. Transit for work
Ward 28: 34% vs. 35%
Ward 20: 34% vs. 32%
Ward 27: 34% vs. 32%
Ward 22: 50% vs. 38%
Ward 25: 73% vs. 21%

For non-work, far more people drive. And these are the subway area.

Ward 02: 81% vs. 17%
Ward 42: 75% vs. 22%

But I guess some people don't consider there as Toronto. Do you care to see some GTA numbers or have I made my point?

Yes, yes, public transit is necessary and we all would like to see more people taking public transit. However, the city can't abandon its drivers which makes up the vast majority of the population. We need long term planning to make sure the city flows, by TTC, by car, by bikes, by whatever means.

If Metropasses were more cost efficient, then I'm willing to bet that more people would take transit for non-scheduled trips. Of course, the TTC is worried about losing revenue from them, so they overprice it. Seems like our government wants us to take transit... but not too much *facepalm*

 

[GraphicMatt]

The TTC wouldn't worry so much about lost revenue if it didn't have to deal with such a ridiculously high farebox recovery rate.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Another thing that's lost in this debate is that if more people use public transit, it will not reduce congestion. The extra available roadspace will just be plugged up with new cars that resulted from growth. It doesn't matter if we have the most extensive and affordable high capacity subway system in the world, there will always be at least as much traffic on the road as there is now. Cities like Paris, Hong Kong and Tokyo seem to confirm this. What public transit (or road) investment does is to effectively lift the ceiling on the number of trips that will be made within a given area. So why invest in higher order public transit? Simple: to lift that growth ceiling and to give people in the area a transportation alternative to getting stuck in traffic. What it won't do, however, is improve the situation for people who drive.