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kEiThZ

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That's the point, we have potential influence and military power, but we don't even try to create or use it.

I think that whole list of resources we provide to the US just proves that we're largely relevant only as a resource colony. And the only reason resource extraction is a smaller part of our GDP is because our FIRE sectors are so huge. I guess some of the laxest money laundering regulations of any major economy is a service we provide to the world....

But really, military and economic influence only comes from those that are willing to provide it. If we aren't willing to provide military support or say ramp up oil and gas exports when our allies need it, then we really aren't as useful to them as we think.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with being less relevant globally. You don't see Poland or Morocco (countries with about our population) claiming to have a global leadership role. But we get, "Canada is back!" rhetoric with an unwillingness to actually contribute all that much.

I'd like us to be honest in our dialogue. If we think militarism is purely something for the Americans, and that we shouldn't have to field an armed forces capable of guarding our sovereignty, then maybe it's time we're honest about our position as an American dependency? Let's make it official. We can save $20B per year on defence and just pay the Americans $10B in protection money annually and accept that they make defence policy for Canada.
 

kEiThZ

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It's easy to forget that with American power at its Zenith, that there's a real and growing risk that the US could lose to China in a conventional conflict. There's a great podcast from the Royal United Services Institute (the world's oldest military and strategy think tank) interviewing professors from the US Naval War College who explored such an idea.


There's a routine assumption in Canada that the world order will largely stay as it is. Ironically, even the Americans don't make this assumption. Might be worth considering.

Will add that even NATO and the EU as we know it, might not survive Ukraine. The Central and Eastern Europeans are increasingly very distrustful of France and Germany, for their willingness to work with Putin and ready appeasement. Whether NATO survives or they form an alliance within an alliance remains to be seen. But given that Canada's historical ties to NATO are largely to Western European powers, this will put us in an increasingly difficult situation, as we try to balance those, with our growing relationship with the Baltics. Could also mean less relevance for us. This emerging alliance, like AUKUS, seems to be far more exacting in their standards.
 
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kEiThZ

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US starting discussions on new TPP. No Canada.


Starting to increasingly look like the world is moving on from listening to us....
 

Northern Light

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US starting discussions on new TPP. No Canada.


Starting to increasingly look like the world is moving on from listening to us....

The agreement, a very loose framework really, doesn't even seek to replace the TPP which most of the countries within the TPP hope the U.S. will still join.

We aren't being excluded from anything material or substantive.

And that assumes any loose framework were passed by the U.S. senate, which, in fact, seems rather unlikely in the current climate.
 

DirectionNorth

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The agreement, a very loose framework really, doesn't even seek to replace the TPP which most of the countries within the TPP hope the U.S. will still join.

We aren't being excluded from anything material or substantive.

And that assumes any loose framework were passed by the U.S. senate, which, in fact, seems rather unlikely in the current climate.
It's not about the specifics of what we're excluded from, it's about the fact that the US and a dozen other countries don't think we're important enough to be included.
 

kEiThZ

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It's not about the specifics of what we're excluded from, it's about the fact that the US and a dozen other countries don't think we're important enough to be included.

Every single deal it's going to be the same talking point. "It isn't a big deal that we're left out."

To be clear, the fault isn't with this government. This is basically several decades of governments being all talk, coming home to roost.
 

Jonny5

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It's not about the specifics of what we're excluded from, it's about the fact that the US and a dozen other countries don't think we're important enough to be included.
How do you know we didn't ask to be excluded? These are legitimate reasons to wait on the sidelines, and real powers do that from time-to-time, not jump at every balloon floated by another country.
Now, I have no idea what is actually going on here, but I know Canada has trade deals with many of these countries already, and some of them, like Canada-South Korea, look to be on very favourable terms to us which could be diluted with what the US is looking for here.
 

DirectionNorth

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How do you know we didn't ask to be excluded? These are legitimate reasons to wait on the sidelines, and real powers do that from time-to-time, not jump at every balloon floated by another country.
Now, I have no idea what is actually going on here, but I know Canada has trade deals with many of these countries already, and some of them, like Canada-South Korea, look to be on very favorable terms to us which could be diluted with what the US is looking for here.
We are already a part of TPP, which includes some (but not all) of these countries - why would we want to be excluded, with markets like India?
Time to get a functioning military?
 

kEiThZ

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Time to get a functioning military
This isn't a military problem. It's time we actually spent more on a functioning intelligence community and got the RCMP better equipped for their homeland security role.

But yes, one of the reasons I argue for a more capable military and foreign service and larger aid budget, is so that we can have more engagement that is independent of the US.
 

kEiThZ

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How do you know we didn't ask to be excluded?

1) Because the government would say so. They did admit to not being asked on AUKUS.

2) If this one deal or initiative, you might have a point. First AUKUS. Now this. I see a trend developing.

Honestly, the cope is just what I expected from Canadians. But it won't help us get better if we aren't honest with ourselves.
 
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kEiThZ

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I was told that warmongering was only for Americans and that we have nothing to worry about in Canada.....


Now just imagine what they'll be like as their power projection capabilities get better.
 

Johnny Au

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Here's some very interesting news:


The Hans Island dispute has finally been resolved!

Canada and Denmark will split the island in half. This means that Canada and Denmark will share a land boundary with each other, which means that both Canada and Denmark are no longer countries that border one other country on land.
 

lenaitch

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Here's some very interesting news:


The Hans Island dispute has finally been resolved!

Canada and Denmark will split the island in half. This means that Canada and Denmark will share a land boundary with each other, which means that both Canada and Denmark are no longer countries that border one other country on land.
Think of the tens of dollars we will save not having to constantly leave a bottle of whisky on the island to support our claim!
 

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