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Not directed at anyone but I just want to mention that grade separation can be more than just for the benefit of drivers. It’s safer for pedestrians and cyclists and huge traffic backups have a really negative effect on surrounding communities. An example is the University ave crossing; the daily backlog leads people to cut through belgravia to cross the tracks at 76 ave but that means 76 is also backed up most weekdays so if someone living in belgravia like myself (who primarily uses public transit) has to drive somewhere between 3:30 and 7 on any given weekday I need to prepare to wait >15 minutes to leave the neighbourhood. Ellerslie is, as someone pointed out, used as neighbourhood access to a quickly growing area which will certainly get traffic backups if there isn’t grade separation which will trickle into each neighbourhood.
 
Seamusmuldrew said:
Not directed at anyone but I just want to mention that grade separation can be more than just for the benefit of drivers. It’s safer for pedestrians and cyclists and huge traffic backups have a really negative effect on surrounding communities. An example is the University ave crossing; the daily backlog leads people to cut through belgravia to cross the tracks at 76 ave but that means 76 is also backed up most weekdays so if someone living in belgravia like myself (who primarily uses public transit) has to drive somewhere between 3:30 and 7 on any given weekday I need to prepare to wait >15 minutes to leave the neighbourhood. Ellerslie is, as someone pointed out, used as neighbourhood access to a quickly growing area which will certainly get traffic backups if there isn’t grade separation which will trickle into each neighbourhood.
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Apples and oranges. None of what you are talking about has come to pass. One system was designed to be a railway in a city, the other meant to be a part of the city. Bonnie Doon has 79st that prevents traffic buildup. 50st will also help greatly.

Furthermore traffic patterns will change. Car drive times will increase. That is happening city wide regardless. Nor should we spend millions to preserve the status qui.
 
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Yeggy said:
Apples and oranges. None of what you are talking about has come to pass. One system was designed to be a railway in a city, the other meant to be a part of the city. Bonnie Doon has 79st that prevents traffic buildup. 50st will also help greatly.

Furthermore traffic patterns will change. Car drive times will increase. That is happening city wide regardless. Nor should we spend millions to preserve the status qui.
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Sorry, what are you talking about? What hasn’t come to pass? Why are you talking about the valley line? I think you may have misunderstood what I said. Idk what your angle is with the whole thing against grade separation cause most transit proponents who know anything think it’s a good thing, especially when it’s a line like the capital line where the primary goal is and should be speed and reliability.
 
Yeggy said:
A major mistake to run at grade, meanwhile Calgary was able to build while ours was stuck underground and we spent millions fixing what we already had.

Why are you being so divisive? Lots of people in Edmonton, and the rail designing contractors we hired, recommended the system we are currently building.

Why so negative and nasty?
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And look at the number of car/train (not to mention pedestrian) accidents Calgary has had on its at-grade sections. Edmonton has had exactly zero car/train accidents on the sections where the train is either underground or grade separated.

As to your second point, I wouldn't put much faith in the contractors and suppliers the city hired...remember Thales were the ones who told the city that their signalling system would work, even though they had never used it anywhere on a system like Edmonton's with at-grade crossings. Remind me...how did that turn out?

The city transportation department and its contractors and suppliers have absolutely NO idea what they're doing...remember the Metro Line was 18 months late and the Valley Line Southeast almost three years.

You can also look at Ottawa, where one of the requirements the city had was that the vehicle it purchased would have to be already in service and proven. Instead Alstom sold them a Citadis model that was so tweaked and souped up (it actually has the engine from the New York City subway cars) it was completely different from the models actually in service in Europe (on which it based its claim that the vehicle was "proven"). Alstom assured the city that the Citadis Spirit would work...even though the original Citadis had never operated anywhere in temperatures as cold as Ottawa winters. And guess what's been happening? The trains have been failing in cold weather.

Yeah, sure, trust the people the city hires, consults or buys from. They know what they're doing.
 
Yeggy said:
A major mistake to run at grade, meanwhile Calgary was able to build while ours was stuck underground and we spent millions fixing what we already had.
Click to expand...

Can you clarify this sentence? Not sure if you're for or against underground, at grade, etc.
 
occidentalcapital said:
It wasn't a major mistake to build downtown underground. The mistake was not continuing to expand in the 90s. In any event, we're well on our way now. Thank goodness.
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I agree in principle, the flip side is we also built lrt poorly 70-90’s

Im glad our system was not built out on old rail ROW’s and that we didn't build out a commuter system ignoring neighborhood's
 
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occidentalcapital said:
It wasn't a major mistake to build downtown underground. The mistake was not continuing to expand in the 90s. In any event, we're well on our way now. Thank goodness.
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And that's nothing you can blame on Edmonton. The province had the purse strings tight as a duck's ass.

"What went wrong? The short answer is money. The city only has nominal control over its long-range transport plans, because three-quarters of the costs are paid for by the province. In 1989-90, when the city was looking at swift LRT expansion, the provincial grant was $70 for every resident of Edmonton. Next year, it’s expected to be $25 a head. And that difference is enough to shelve any ideas of efficient mass transit spreading across Edmonton."

Edmonton Journal
Aug 25 1992
Section: Editorial Oped
 
northlands said:
And that's nothing you can blame on Edmonton. The province had the purse strings tight as a duck's ass.

"What went wrong? The short answer is money. The city only has nominal control over its long-range transport plans, because three-quarters of the costs are paid for by the province. In 1989-90, when the city was looking at swift LRT expansion, the provincial grant was $70 for every resident of Edmonton. Next year, it’s expected to be $25 a head. And that difference is enough to shelve any ideas of efficient mass transit spreading across Edmonton."

Edmonton Journal
Aug 25 1992
Section: Editorial Oped
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Layer in Ralph hated Edmonton. The greatest gift to Edmonton was the Stelmac/Mandel combo.

Its when the phrase “whats good for Edmonton is also good for Alberta” was coined. Along with A strong Alberta includes a Strong Alberta. I moved here in 97, the exact same year that Edmonton’s in migration was exactly 97 people.
 
Seems like a good place to end this argument! Listen to me now, I feel like complaining. The new trains for the Metro/Capital lines can't come soon enough, instances of U2 doors getting jammed and the operator needing to get out and manually fix it seem to be more and more common. I'm not super caught up on the process, but if I'm correct the list of bids hasn't come back yet right? Does anyone know the timeline for this?
 
I've been reading some of the articles and documents from back when the changes to the project scope was being proposed. Some of the them have made mention of what might happen with the approved reimbursement/funding from the Provincial and Federal government.

"Administration has met with federal and provincial funding partners and reviewed these scope changes. The funding partners have acknowledged the changes make sense from a scope and budget perspective and market conditions, but they also advised that implementing changes that do not align with the approved project scope will require federal Treasury Board approval and formal amendments to the funding agreement. Moreover, pending this approval, any expenditures associated with new scope elements would not be eligible for reimbursement."

edmontonjournal.com

Edmonton Capital Line LRT extension will be scaled back or cost more

Stretching Edmonton's Capital Line LRT south to Ellerslie Road will cost more money than expected unless the city scales back the plan.
edmontonjournal.com edmontonjournal.com
"The cost of sticking to the original vision hasn’t been disclosed. But if the expansion doesn’t proceed as originally planned, Edmonton won’t be reimbursed by the provincial or federal governments if they want to complete the other elements in the future, city staff warn in a report."

edmontonsun.com

GUNTER: Edmonton's LRT reality much different than its ambitious dream of an efficient transit system

The city simply isn’t very good at building LRT. Period.
edmontonsun.com edmontonsun.com
"But if it scales back, it runs the risk of losing some or all the federal and provincial funds pledged to the project, which would increase the burden on municipal property taxpayers.

Just the $333 million the city has agreed to contribute for the short extension will add 1.02 per cent to Edmontonians’ local taxes through 2027 or 2028. It would be much more if Ottawa and the province back out."

globalnews.ca

LRT extension in south Edmonton, rising in cost, opposed by some residents - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

The plans for the Capital Line South LRT extension place a station beside the neighbourhood of Twin Brooks, at 111 Street and 9 Avenue.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
"Ward sipiwiyiniwak Coun. Sarah Hamilton said the extension project might be stuck with the Twin Brooks station.

“That station has been worked into the overall funding agreement, so removing that might mean that we lose funding from other orders of government — that’s really important to know,” Hamilton said."

Based on what I read, outside of possibly the first quote, there seems to be the implication that the city might have potentially screwed itself over and may have to fully pay the $1.1 billion for the project.

The implications has got me wondering about this project. If that implication ends up being true, then that just makes their unwilliness to spend the extra $85 to $100 million that's been estimated all the more baffling to me.
 
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Seamusmuldrew said:
Seems like a good place to end this argument! Listen to me now, I feel like complaining. The new trains for the Metro/Capital lines can't come soon enough, instances of U2 doors getting jammed and the operator needing to get out and manually fix it seem to be more and more common. I'm not super caught up on the process, but if I'm correct the list of bids hasn't come back yet right? Does anyone know the timeline for this?
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All I know is that the contractor is supposed to be selected sometime in the beginning of 2024.
 
Let's focus on the line's future instead of arguing about history and semantics, shall we? I tried to clean up this thread as best I could, but it probably needs more later when I have time. For those who submitted reports, thank you - if anyone sees anything else, do submit a report. We aren't able to look through every thread/conversation all the time.

I have handed out various warnings, etc, but can everyone try to be more civil across threads? Banning people is never fun since it takes away from potential conversations, but we will do so if the conversations continue to be personal. There are platforms where that is acceptable behaviour; this is not one of them.
 
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