archited
Senior Member
^^^^ There are no words...
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- Thread starter Gronk!
- Start date
roe_
Active Member
I don't agree with Ian that closing 102 avenue to cars is a bad idea, but he does raise an important point. There are a few areas of restricted car access in the city, but without any people to replace the cars they can seem unsafe or abandoned. For example, the city has restricted cars on a portion of 96 street, but there are few pedestrians or businesses and it isn't exactly a bustling area for a stroll despite the huge amounts of money invested in improvements to the public realm. My guess is that some people would feel unsafe walking that area at night alone.
Hopefully by virtue of having a pedestrian oriented LRT 102 avenue will naturally have more pedestrians, but the last thing we need DT is another barren area that is abandoned by motorists and pedestrians.
Hopefully by virtue of having a pedestrian oriented LRT 102 avenue will naturally have more pedestrians, but the last thing we need DT is another barren area that is abandoned by motorists and pedestrians.
Gronk!
Senior Member
As mentioned in the other thread let's do a trial run of the 102 Ave closure first instead of opening it to the almighty car/SUV/F150
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IanO
Superstar
Bingo Tkoe
If Ottawa cannot get Sparks Street going with its more favourable width, beautiful storefronts/buildings, small-scale retail and significant daytime density... how are we expected to create a space that people want to linger, that's 'sticky' and full of activity with 102 Ave?
If Ottawa cannot get Sparks Street going with its more favourable width, beautiful storefronts/buildings, small-scale retail and significant daytime density... how are we expected to create a space that people want to linger, that's 'sticky' and full of activity with 102 Ave?
Didama
Active Member
I live right off 124st, by 'the lot'. A crazy thing happened there: A previously empty parking lot was turned into a space for people. Food trucks came, a mini stage was set up and guess what? People started coming! Now it is a vibrant place with foot traffic throughout the day and most evenings. We could easily replicate that downtown in RHW or portions of 102 Ave if it weren't for the pro-car crowd like IanO. Build and they will come, is my mantra.
IanO
Superstar
I love the idea of it all, don't get me wrong and I am purposefully being the devil's advocate here. BUT I it is a disservice to the overall movement if we do something just to do something without incubating and nurturing the environment to ensure success.
Again, if we are taking cars off to make it safer, improve parity or cause we don't like cars then say that.
IF we are doing this to achieve something similar to (a good example for us to use) the 16th Street Mall in Denver, then let's get on it and transform podiums into street-facing CRUs and focus on reason for people to actually want to be there.
'Just over a full mile of pedestrian shopping and dining has made the 16th Street Mall a downtown Denver favorite of locals and tourists for more than 30 years. Over 250 shops and restaurants, plus year-round special events, make this area an exciting Denver destination since the early eighties.'
www.uncovercolorado.com
Again, if we are taking cars off to make it safer, improve parity or cause we don't like cars then say that.
IF we are doing this to achieve something similar to (a good example for us to use) the 16th Street Mall in Denver, then let's get on it and transform podiums into street-facing CRUs and focus on reason for people to actually want to be there.
'Just over a full mile of pedestrian shopping and dining has made the 16th Street Mall a downtown Denver favorite of locals and tourists for more than 30 years. Over 250 shops and restaurants, plus year-round special events, make this area an exciting Denver destination since the early eighties.'
16th Street Mall – Downtown Denver, CO | Pedestrian Promenade
Just over a full mile of pedestrian shopping and dining has made the 16th Street Mall a downtown Denver favorite of locals and tourists for more than 30 years. Over 250 shops and restaurants, plus year-round special events, make this area an exciting Denver destination since the early eighties.
www.uncovercolorado.com
IanO
Superstar
On 107ave?
I am in the area regularly and it is generally empty... with the exception of say Friday nights and Saturdays...
Oh, right.
archited
Senior Member
^^^^ Here's where the S-L-O-W change in opinion starts to take shape (imagine that).
Didama
Active Member
Or we can get the process started by taking a space and making it attractive: food trucks, pop up shops, special markets, concerts.... once you activate a space THEN you will get an interest from business in leasing CRUs. It's easy to say 'lets get the CRUs first', but that could take decades if we keep listening to the pro-car crowd that kills any kind of life or scheduling opportunities on our streets that should be focused primarily on the human level. Let's be bold and start something creative. If people come, the CRUs will follow. The other way around doesn't work.
IanO
Superstar
Didama
Active Member
It depends on what time of day and which day of the week. But it's 1000% busier than what it was before. And it's in the first year of operations, so the more people know about it, the busier it will likely get. Plus, it's important to remember that the day time crowd downtown would be much larger due to the office crowds. And if you create enough of a destination, you can also get the evening crowds for hockey, plays, etc.
IanO
Superstar
The improvements will already do that on 102 Avenue and so now let's focus our efforts on facade improvements, smaller-scale CRU spaces and programming on certain evenings/days to showcase what could be.
The oneway lane would be awkward to use for much anyways and certainly allows flexibility later on when there is good need/rational/desire to make this more pedestrian focussed.
Until then let's focus on the street-wall.
IanO
Superstar
I patron it and it is FAR better than that ugly parking lot and stupid little building but it is a good reminder that not only do things take time to build critical mass to ensure longer-term viability, but it needs people and lots of them at various times of the day.
Imagine the 104st farmer's market ran 7 days a week on a closed 104st. It would dilute the value of its success on Saturdays and lead to a less desirable experience for visitors, users and residents.
Didama
Active Member
So the one way lane will be awkward to use and probably not very heavily used, but we dare not actually turn into a pedestrian space why? You talk about focusing on smaller scale CRUs, which sounds great, but the reality is that it will be more pedestrians - not more cars - that will bring more interest in creating those CRUs. I'm so glad we have a progressive council that already seems to get this. Time for the outdated car-first philosophy to disappear, sorry IanO.
Didama
Active Member
well according to your logic the owners of The Lot should have focused on getting more CRUs to the area and then maybe turning it into a pedestrian area at some vague point a few decades in the future.