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Skeezix said:
I have to say I have mixed feelings about this. There are limited on-street parking spaces and residents pay a lot for parking permits. Car2Go's rationale, which is that they will in the long-term free up parking as people switch from car ownership to car sharing, is dubious.
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Pays a lot? $15 a month! Most people pay $15 a day. The social and economic cost of this parking is huge.

Why do we give away precious public land for pennies? People should pay for the real cost of car ownership (especially those in dense parts of Toronto who have plenty of access to public transport).

Someone who lives 1 block from a streetcar should not get subsidized parking. They should pay market value.

Hike up the fees to what people in condos around the corner from them must pay. $175-$200 a month. Then the number of cars in the downtown will decrease. Spots open up on the side streets and we can then ban parking from Queen/King/College/Dundas. We can use the extra space for bike lanes / patio's for restaurants / speeding up streetcars.

And yes...we should encourage car sharing like Cars2Go in these neighbourhoods. Imagine someone who can't afford a car (or doesn't want to own one). We should be helping them...not making their lives harder.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I understand your point in this instance, but do we really want large corporations choosing which municipal laws they can ignore? Shredding and delivery trucks already jam up downtown roads, accepting tickets as a cost of business. If food trucks can ignore by-laws on location, then why not on food safety? Can developers or renovation contractors ignore bylaws they feel are silly?
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Only if they have an app and VC funding.

Do tickets not escalate here? First parking ticket is $X, 3rd is $X*4 until the driver gets the point? That seems like a simple solution.
 
muller877 said:
Pays a lot? $15 a month! Most people pay $15 a day. The social and economic cost of this parking is huge.
.
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To put a $15/month parking fee into context...

A SMALL garbage bin costs Toronto $2o/month to pick up and dispose of. 26 garbage bags a year. We charge more to get rid of 26 bags of garbage than we charge for a parking spot on a street.
 
UserNameToronto said:
Isn't it your neighbors (and Car2Go clients) who are parking the Car2Go on the street, rather than the company itself?
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Oh, simple then. Just go and knock on their door and explain why they should obey the by-law.

Probably the same dastardly denizens who don't come to a full stop at a stop sign.
 
muller877 said:
Pays a lot? $15 a month! Most people pay $15 a day. The social and economic cost of this parking is huge.

Why do we give away precious public land for pennies? People should pay for the real cost of car ownership (especially those in dense parts of Toronto who have plenty of access to public transport).

Someone who lives 1 block from a streetcar should not get subsidized parking. They should pay market value.

Hike up the fees to what people in condos around the corner from them must pay. $175-$200 a month. Then the number of cars in the downtown will decrease. Spots open up on the side streets and we can then ban parking from Queen/King/College/Dundas. We can use the extra space for bike lanes / patio's for restaurants / speeding up streetcars.

And yes...we should encourage car sharing like Cars2Go in these neighbourhoods. Imagine someone who can't afford a car (or doesn't want to own one). We should be helping them...not making their lives harder.
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Calm down. My comment wasn't intended to address the "social and economic cost" of on-street parking. If you climb out of my throat for a minute, I can tell you I don't disagree with you. I was simply saying there are residents who have paid for on-street parking. And you might think $15/month is insignificant, but anecdotally I can tell you it isn't for a number of my neighbours, many of whom are tenants, many of require vehicles and can't afford to live in a fancy condo. I think each and every one would be delighted to be able to be in a position to be paying $175-$200 for secure, heated, underground parking with elevator access to one's home. I have no issue with a complete rethink of how this City treats on-street parking. But until that happens, I do have an issue where people are paying for permits (and let's not be condescending and tell them that the cost is a nothing) while Cars2Go is effectively privatizing these spaces. That's what I meant about mixed feelings.
 
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Skeezix said:
I have no issue with a complete rethink of how this City treats on-street parking. But until that happens, I do have an issue where people are paying for permits (and let's not be condescending and tell them that the cost is a nothing) while Cars2Go is effectively privatizing these spaces. That's what I meant about mixed feelings.
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I agree, and share mixed feelings here. Let's remember Car2Go is a private, for profit corporation, not an altruistic or socially progressive charity. Their aim is to make their product more profitable by flouting the city's by-laws.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Their aim is to make their product more profitable by flouting the city's by-laws.
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It's a good product. I'd like to see it, and competing products, more widely available. Like you, I'm just conflicted about their approach.
 
muller877 said:
Pays a lot? $15 a month! Most people pay $15 a day. The social and economic cost of this parking is huge.

Why do we give away precious public land for pennies? People should pay for the real cost of car ownership (especially those in dense parts of Toronto who have plenty of access to public transport).

Someone who lives 1 block from a streetcar should not get subsidized parking. They should pay market value.

Hike up the fees to what people in condos around the corner from them must pay. $175-$200 a month. Then the number of cars in the downtown will decrease. Spots open up on the side streets and we can then ban parking from Queen/King/College/Dundas. We can use the extra space for bike lanes / patio's for restaurants / speeding up streetcars.

And yes...we should encourage car sharing like Cars2Go in these neighbourhoods. Imagine someone who can't afford a car (or doesn't want to own one). We should be helping them...not making their lives harder.
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That's what I love about UT, I wouldn't have thought of this perspective or position whatsoever. Interesting stuff.
 
muller877 said:
Someone who lives 1 block from a streetcar should not get subsidized parking. They should pay market value.

Hike up the fees to what people in condos around the corner from them must pay. $175-$200 a month. Then the number of cars in the downtown will decrease. Spots open up on the side streets and we can then ban parking from Queen/King/College/Dundas. We can use the extra space for bike lanes / patio's for restaurants / speeding up streetcars.

And yes...we should encourage car sharing like Cars2Go in these neighbourhoods. Imagine someone who can't afford a car (or doesn't want to own one). We should be helping them...not making their lives harder.
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Absolutely. I'm regularly astonished how much road space we give away to just parked cars on major thoroughfares...although that's a bit separate from this debate. Think of it from a utilization perspective of a public good, the parking space. I imagine a Car2Go vehicle is utilized many more hours a day than a private vehicle. Most private vehicle commuters probably make a trip to work and a trip from work on average. I see cars that move less than once a week. I don't have any numbers, but I would guess a Car2Go is rented 10-20 times a day. Many more citizens are getting utility from the parking spot (a small one) taken up by a Car2Go vehicle.

Another way to think of it, is to think of the cost of on-street parking relative to the cost of a TTC pass. It's only $14.71/month plus HST for a parking spot. A TTC pass is $141.50 per month. That should put in perspective the value of services received versus cost delivered and the respective public subsidies.
 
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