[BKha]

I’m sure this topic will generate a lot of debate, for me this is more about understanding the carbon tax. I’ve seen so much debate on it recently, but I don’t know what stuff is true and what isn’t.
So for me, personally, I’ve generally been a supporter of the carbon tax, but I admit, I don’t know all aspects of the carbon tax
One thing that I came across recently is that my nieces have been receiving carbon, tax rebates, even though they live at home with their parents.
I don’t really understand the deal with it, as they (my nieces) drive everywhere, while my sister and brother-in-law work from home, and hardly ever drive, when my sister goes to work, she takes the bus.
I know they earned more than my nieces obviously, but they pay for the heating bills and pay for everything else, so I don’t really understand the whole rebate thing.

And as far as the carbon tax in general goes, I was always in support of it as I thought that a lot of the bunny would go towards promoting green energy and alternative energy, sources, etc. but according to my brother-in-law, that’s not the case it just goes back to general revenue is at the case?

I’ve tried googling information on the carbon tax and the information isn’t very clear or consistent but I think people here would probably have a good understanding of it.

Thanks!

 

[Surrealplaces]

I thought the rebate was only given to one person per household, but I might be mistaken.

 

[Duck Lightning]

Shouldn't this thread be under the politics tab? https://calgary.skyrisecities.com/forum/forums/politics.426/

 

[JTron]

The general discussion thread is a mixed bag. I think it’s as good a place as any for it.

 

[darwink]

One thing that I came across recently is that my nieces have been receiving carbon, tax rebates, even though they live at home with their parents.

Someone is filling out their taxes wrong if what they’re saying is accurate. It is possible that their conflating the GST rebate with the climate action incentive (the carbon tax rebate).

it just goes back to general revenue is at the case?

It all goes back to in rebates (90%) or programs for energy efficiency (mostly for businesses which don’t get rebates).

 

[Surrealplaces]

Someone is filling out their taxes wrong if what they’re saying is accurate. It is possible that their conflating the GST rebate with the climate action incentive (the carbon tax rebate).

That's what I'm wondering also...or maybe someone is pulling a fast one, by using different addresses or something. If I'm not mistaken, anyone living at home with their parents wouldn't be receiving a carbon tax rebate.

 

[Zoom]

Here’s a question I’ll throw out there. What is the point of having a carbon tax, if 90% is going back as rebates to people who have lower incomes? I mean, isn’t that only a regular tax at this point? I’d much rather see a smaller carbon tax that goes 100% to promoting alternative energy sources.

 

[DougB]

It would be a great idea in an academic vacuum. The three fatal flaws are
-governments can't resist the temptation to apply carbon taxation unequally (ex.the ridiculous assertation that Quebec's cap and trade regime is equivalent to the the federal carbon)
-it fails to level the playing field for international trade as exports are at a competitive disadvantage while imports enjoy an advantage
-it doesn't consider economic integration with the US. Canada now has a carbon tax and is also pressured to match subsidies provided by the American Inflation Acceleration Act

Seeing the Trudeau Liberals go down in flames over the carbon tax is both incredibly enjoyable and symbolic of a naive government that overvalues activism while undervaluing market realities.

 

[Chinook Arch]

IMO the carbon tax is bad because it’s not accomplishing anything. I would be on board with a carbon tax if all of the proceeds went to green energy or transit, or some other initiative that truly helped battle carbon emissions.
Not only that, but carbon emissions are a world problem, unless there’s a tax globally on anything that produces carbon than it’s kind of pointless.
We charge a carbon tax for people to heat their houses or to operate a vehicle, which means that we’re taxing all of our groceries that are delivered by trucks, etc.. but then we give the money back to low income people to cover the extra amount they have to pay for this.
And to top it off, the carbon tax isn’t being applied to a countries like China or S Korea, who manufacture almost all of our goods, but are huge producers of CO2.
Create s global carbon tax that helps battle carbon emissions and I’ll be on board with it, but the one we have here in Canada as a joke.

 

[Urban Outdoorsman]

I used to be in favour of the carbon tax but I've definitely begun to back away from the idea. Truth is I have doubts about how well it's able to accomplish its stated goals i.e., incentivizing people to make greener investments in cars and whatnot. But truthfully I couldn't afford to make those kinds of "green" choices even if I wanted to. Fact of the matter for me is that I'm still driving exactly what I would have otherwise and I'm not going to install a heat pump or take advantage of the home improvement grants because they still don't make financial sense (not to mention the process is surprising cumbersome and the grants are pretty pathetic.)

I'm beginning to feel like it's just a punitive tax on everything that accomplishes very little. I understand that in theory I get back roughly what I put in, but I'd rather just pay less for virtually everything than get a government hand out a couple times a year.

 

[darwink]

Here’s a question I’ll throw out there. What is the point of having a carbon tax, if 90% is going back as rebates to people who have lower incomes? I mean, isn’t that only a regular tax at this point? I’d much rather see a smaller carbon tax that goes 100% to promoting alternative energy sources.

Relative preferences. Your spending power is maintained by the refund. But your spending is influenced by changes of prices. Your capital decisions ((which lock in emissions) are based by long term prices.

 

[darwink]

I'm not going to install a heat pump or take advantage of the home improvement grants because they still don't make financial sense

But will you when your furnace fails and your vehicle needs replacement? Those are what matters. Plus carbon prices are still to more than double.

 

[DougB]

But will you when your furnace fails and your vehicle needs replacement? Those are what matters. Plus carbon prices are still to more than double.

The government is making a big mistake in aggressively pushing heat pumps. If a homeowner takes advantage of a government program to install a heat pump and it fails to meet their needs, will they expect government to provide some recourse? Considerable differences in opinion are out there in terms of heat pump effectiveness, and the government should wait for the dust to settle. Anecdotally, I had a neighbor in Utah spend $30K on a heat pump system only to discover that it only provides benefit in the shoulder seasons. He still uses natural gas in the winter. I also know at HVAC expert who refuses to install them anywhere in western Canada other than the coast because of so much buyer remorse. The government incentive could incent increased adoption of AC, which would counter the objectives.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

IMO the carbon tax is bad because it’s not accomplishing anything. I would be on board with a carbon tax if all of the proceeds went to green energy or transit, or some other initiative that truly helped battle carbon emissions.
Not only that, but carbon emissions are a world problem, unless there’s a tax globally on anything that produces carbon than it’s kind of pointless.
We charge a carbon tax for people to heat their houses or to operate a vehicle, which means that we’re taxing all of our groceries that are delivered by trucks, etc.. but then we give the money back to low income people to cover the extra amount they have to pay for this.
And to top it off, the carbon tax isn’t being applied to a countries like China or S Korea, who manufacture almost all of our goods, but are huge producers of CO2.
Create s global carbon tax that helps battle carbon emissions and I’ll be on board with it, but the one we have here in Canada as a joke.

100% agree. What you're talking about is pretty much what I recall as the Alberta NDP Carbon Tax. I could be wrong but I think some initial Green Line money even came from the Alberta NDP Carbon Tax. My very conservative parents and brother even took advantage of one of Alberta NDP Carbon tax initiatives: At the time the province had people come around, assess your house, and give you discounted LED light bulbs, along with other things. (I wasn't a home owner at the time and only rented a bedroom in someone's house so I don't remember the details.)

The problem with the federal tax is it is all stick and then they hand you a carrot which you do not associate with the stick. I mean with this last month's carrot my wife and I bought a carpet. If we still had the Alberta NDP Carbon Tax I think we would be far better off. Using Carbon Tax money to pay for better, greener transit, inexpensive home retrofits like LED bulbs and programmable thermostats helps lower income families more than a rebate that likely goes to groceries or discretionary spending that has likely been made more expensive because of the Carbon Tax. Use the money to knock off the GST or otherwise incentivize Hybrid or Electric vehicles for people and businesses because sure not a lot of people buy new vehicles, especially these days with interest rates, but if one more person or business does then that was one more than before. Home retrofits are a tough one as you really only do it if you have the money anyways but most people have a furnace and hot water tank that needs to be replace every 20 years; why not dramatically incentivize them? Even though we need a furnace in this climate, you would need a much smaller one if you coupled it with a heat pump (and a heat pump can act as a cooling unit in our warming summers).

My point is I fully endorse that we need to do something but the federal Carbon Tax is a complete failure and needs to be repealed or changed drastically from its current form to something that actually reduces our carbon output.

 

[darwink]

A big thing with heat pumps is they have improved the temperature range where they are ultra efficient at.

Certainly if you already have a gas furnace and don’t need to replace it, you may as well keep it for now. You can buy controllers that will switch between the heat pump and a gas furnace based on the cost of energy from each and the temperature outside. As the carbon tax goes up that will result in fewer hours where the furnace is running.

At some point one will need to consider either paying for renewable natural gas or stopping natural gas service to the house to save the fixed costs of natural gas. At that point your backup heat is plain old electric resistance plus preheating if any hours of the day are warm enough (or when the grid is less strained).

That transition of society as a whole is gradual and driven by individual choices is a feature not a bug of a carbon tax regime. The alternative would be outright bans with a central planner deciding what you should buy, like what the government did with light bulbs but with water heaters and eventually furnaces.