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No, I meant it's a great alternative route in THE CAR vs. the car on the DVP.
Yes, invariably I find Danforth/McCowan is quicker to get to that area than taking the DVP/401 ... but it takes me 5 minutes to get to the DVP, so it's not really worth backtracking to the DVP unless there it is moving 100% ... which I think happens northbound at around 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning, and sometime after midnight ... :) Similiarily, heading to Pickering, Kingston Road is often a better alternative ... or no slower.

Though if my destination is near the SRT, simply taking the subway and RT can be faster than driving, as the subway east of VP moves quickly up to Kennedy/Eglinton from VP/Danforth on a diagonal. Shame it didn't keep going as a diagonal up to SRT and Sheppard/Markham. With a good bus service on Markham Road, that might start to give commute times to that area that while not being faster than a car, at least would be more civilized.
 
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What I find most disturbing is that there are individuals who own more than one motor vehicle, and have taken out loans or financing to own them. Even worse, during most of the day, the vehicles are being parked (stored) away, because other individuals in the family also have their own vehicle, which is parked (stored) for most of the day as well. And everyone paying off the expenses of upkeep while the vehicles are just not moving (that includes the traffic jams as well).

Allow me to detail my situation:

Since I've moved back home, my house has 4 people living in it with 3 drivers and 3 cars, including mine. My parents have a Buick sedan and a Saturn Outlook. My mom works for the CCSA, and her job can take her all over the place. Though sometimes when she works directly out of the downtown office, she will get a ride to the GO station in the Buick. My dad is self-employed and works from home. If he has to do errands during the day, he will take the Buick if available, otherwise the Saturn. Now my youngest brother has special needs and uses a wheelchair, which is the main reason why our second car is so big.

As for me, when I was on my own I purchased a Toyota Echo and ended up moving on from a telemarketer (ain't the economy grand?) to a delivery driver, using my own car. Since I moved back home to go back to school, I will admit I have considered selling my car, however there are a few reasons why I won't:

1. While I took care of it better than most people do, because I used it for deliveries it has a very high number of kilometers on it. The car also has a few parking lot scrapes on it (all thanks to other people) and some of the accessories have stopped working, therefore the resale value would be non-existent. Also, I still have to finish paying it off, though I may do that before school starts.
2. York Region Transit sucks balls! Though I am a short bike ride away from Yonge St which has decent service, the fares are of a very poor value. $3.25 cash, or $2.60 per ticket. This gets me bus service along Yonge every 10-15 minutes, or everywhere else every 30-60 minutes! I plan on driving to Langstaff station and taking a GO bus from there to school though, but the less I have to take YRT the better!
3. Considering my location, having a car does improve my freedom. Now I lived at this location right through my teens and early twenties without ready access to a car, so I know what I'm talking about. Yes, I could get to a lot of places with transit, but on average it took 3 times longer than if I drove. So something that was a 20 minute drive was approximately a 60 minute transit ride (including a 20 minute walk or 10 minute bike ride to the bus stop). My travels may also be dynamic: my brother just moved out to East York for school, I use online dating so I may need to travel to meet someone, and you never know when I may need to go somewhere where transit is not the better way. I also hope to keep my car until the wheels fall off (then reattach them and keep it even longer), so in the future I may need to travel to places where transit doesn't.

With that said, I do use my bike if my destination is at least 2-3km away. And since my part time job is even closer than the bus stop and I haven't had to drive very much in the past while, After 2 weeks I've only used half a tank of gas! :D



EDIT: Also wanted to add that while some of articles posted point out the cost of automobiles to both individuals and government, it doesn't mention what we get back from them. Road maintenance and enhancements creates jobs, for both planners and labour. Car maintenance, manufacturing, and marketing also creates a large amount of high paying jobs. Commercial driving (truck, bus, delivery, taxi, etc.) is also a fairly well paying occupation for someone with limited education or skills, and is always in demand even during economic downturns. Putting these all together, I'd say automotive related work makes up a large percentage of our job market, especially if you exclude part time or low paying (minimum wage) jobs.
 
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The North American Automobile Dependency and its costs to us all...

Everyone: Interesting topic concerning the North American dependency on the Automobile...

I tried to place two in-depth replies here in recent days and I ended up losing both of those tries to a computer glitch that I believe is connected to this web page...it is frustrating just to lose your train of thought about a topic in that manner.

As a strong believer in a balanced transportation system I think that all modes of transit have their place but the powers-that-be see things otherwise...just the posted graphs showing how funding favors roads and highways says plenty to me...

The recent David Suzuki and Streetsblog posts are quite interesting and shows some educated thoughts on the true cost of the North American auto dependency...

I have seen myself on how transit riders are looked down by some as second-class citizens...and outside of major cities like NYC and Toronto transit can be a so-so alternative to driving at best...

In the NYC area the MTA is in the midst of a major budget/funding crisis and services are being cut and fares are going to rise...I feel that transit being the necessity it is should be funded in a way that is a fair balance to all from the riders to the taxpayers...

I do give Canada credit because it seems to me that Mass Transit is an important part of a balanced transportation system even more then the US and it shows from the large use of systems there...

Our oil dependency has a huge cost in itself...in so many ways and we must all remember that it is a FINITE resource...
There HAS to be a true alternative out there somewhere...

Thoughts and observations from LI MIKE
 
The province built the 4-lane 401 across over Toronto, to bypass the city.

hwy401-76_lg.jpg

Hwy 401 approaching the Hwy 400 Cloverleaf in Toronto, looking east (October 7, 1954)

Around the same as when the Yonge subway was built from Eglinton to Union Station.

In 4 years, it got crowded on the 401.

hwy401-12_lg.jpg

8 a.m. traffic on Hwy 401 at Keele Street, looking west (March 21, 1958)

So they widen the 401 to 3 lanes, and then to 12 lanes.

hwy401-19_lg.jpg

Aerial view of Hwy 401 looking east from Don Valley Parkway (1999)

Meanwhile, they added express tracks to the Yonge subway, NOT.

So they built the Queen Subway, NOT.

So they started building the Downtown Relief Line, NOT.

They did however lengthen the subway line. Whoopie.
 
At my office in Markham, all the sales guys and senior managers (total of about 20-25 folks) get a no charge company car as their personal vehicle, including all gas, insurance, 407 tolls, etc. Parking at the office is free for everyone. What incentive would these guys need to take the TTC? When I get to that level, I'll get the car too, and have no financial incentive to take the bus.
 
At my office in Markham, all the sales guys and senior managers (total of about 20-25 folks) get a no charge company car as their personal vehicle, including all gas, insurance, 407 tolls, etc. Parking at the office is free for everyone. What incentive would these guys need to take the TTC? When I get to that level, I'll get the car too, and have no financial incentive to take the bus.

It seems very odd to me that companies could reimburse automobile expenditures without question, but try to do the same with public transit, they say those are normal expenditures for employees and cannot be covered. What about putting transit passes in the same category as the company car? Companies, as as Admiral Beez's, would save plenty in their balance sheet if they do.
 
It seems very odd to me that companies could reimburse automobile expenditures without question, but try to do the same with public transit, they say those are normal expenditures for employees and cannot be covered. What about putting transit passes in the same category as the company car? Companies, as as Admiral Beez's, would save plenty in their balance sheet if they do.
If I'm a salesguy, and I've been asked to visit a customer across the city. Am I supposed to tell the customer to wait 2 hours while I take public transit? The company provides company cars to the staff that need to be on the road on company business. Yes, they use them for commuting, but that's not the purpose.
 
If I'm a salesguy, and I've been asked to visit a customer across the city. Am I supposed to tell the customer to wait 2 hours while I take public transit? The company provides company cars to the staff that need to be on the road on company business. Yes, they use them for commuting, but that's not the purpose.

I'm reminded of my real-estate experiences in New York and Paris. In New York the agent had a small network of cabs following us around and some kind of a frequent user card that allowed for quick/bulk payment. He would call for one as we left and it would be waiting. The reason, of course, is that parking in New York can be difficult to find.

In Paris, I was shuttled around by subway and on foot. The agent explained that driving was generally the slower option and again parking could be difficult to find at many showings. The agent carried a few monthly passes and swipped me in/out as necessary. We did not take a bus but we did use LRT at one point.


I think the answer to the salesguy question is simply to continue improving transit as the city grows. This helps the salesman in two ways, it eventually gives them a second option from the car and in the mean time it helps remove other drivers from the street allowing them to travel quickly.

Transit in Toronto is a salesmans best friend, whether they use it or not.
 
It seems very odd to me that companies could reimburse automobile expenditures without question, but try to do the same with public transit, they say those are normal expenditures for employees and cannot be covered. What about putting transit passes in the same category as the company car? Companies, as as Admiral Beez's, would save plenty in their balance sheet if they do.
I'd think most companies would pay transit costs if they were submitted - for business trips. I've certainly had no problem getting them paid; but it's seldom a trip I do makes more sense by transit, given our office is in the suburbs; but it does happen from time-to-time.
 
If I'm a salesguy, and I've been asked to visit a customer across the city. Am I supposed to tell the customer to wait 2 hours while I take public transit? The company provides company cars to the staff that need to be on the road on company business. Yes, they use them for commuting, but that's not the purpose.

Us salesguys need cars. As much as i hate driving it's still the fastest way to get around Toronto and all its srpawling burbs. Time is money.
 
Article from Publicola.net:

Car Capacity Is Not Sacred

By Dan Bertolet

Supporters of “road diets†are quick to point out that even when car travel lanes are eliminated to make room for bikes, not to worry, there will still be sufficient capacity for cars. And even though that has been blindingly indisputable in several recent Seattle cases, the naysayers howled away nonetheless—a sad commentary on how deeply in denial our culture still is when it comes to the problem of car dependence.

But to me, the dynamic of that debate also reveals a troubling acquiescence—by both sides—to an ostensibly inviolable ground rule: Car capacity is sacred.

It may well be that in today’s political climate, the only way cycling and pedestrian advocates will get the infrastructure they want is if they assure the masses that car travel will not be impacted in any way. But the trouble is, that position suppresses the reality that cars are in fundamental conflict with walking, biking, and transit.

In his book Green Metropolis, David Owen captures that conflict:
In urban areas that are dense enough to support efficient public transit systems, officials often negate their own efforts to increase usage, by simultaneously spending huge sums to make it easier for people to get around in cars. When a city’s streets or highways become crowded, for example, the standard response is to create additional capacity by building new roads or widening existing ones. Projects like these almost always end up making the original problem worse—while also usually taking years to complete and costing many millions of dollars—because they generate what transportation planners call “induced trafficâ€: every mile of new open roadway encourages existing users to make more car trips, lures drivers away from other routes, and tempts transit riders to return to their automobiles, with the eventual result that the new roads become at least as clogged as the old roads, though at higher traffic volumes, and the efficiency of transit declines. These negative outcomes are compounded by the fact that, in the short term, temporarily improved traffic flow reduces commute times for drivers on the expanded roadways, making it easier for people to justify building houses, malls, and office buildings in formerly inaccessible outlying areas—and , in turn, eventually makes all the original problems worse, as the places where commuters sleep and shop drift farther and farther apart, and new feeder roads are built to serve them.​

Note that the passage above is just as valid if you substitute “walking†or “biking†for “transit.â€

The crucial point is that car infrastructure not only encourages driving, it also sabotages mobility by any other means. It’s a vicious cycle: roads beget sprawl begets car dependence begets roads, and so on. And the result is an ever-expanding built environment in which walking, biking, and transit are not viable options.

The only way to break the vicious cycle is to invest our limited transportation dollars in infrastructure that will help make walking, biking, and transit more attractive than driving. And here’s where we need to start being honest with ourselves: If we are serious about creating a city in which significant numbers of trips are made by modes other than cars, then we will have to accept that driving will become less convenient than it is today.

As the Puget Sound region continues to grow—and we know it will—we will be faced with a choice: Continue to build more roads and thereby preclude progress on alternative transportation, or stop building roads and accept that there is a limit to the number of cars we can accommodate if we hope to a create a balanced, sustainable transportation system and the compact land use patterns that support it.

All the evidence I’ve seen overwhelmingly supports the latter choice. That is not to say the transition will be totally painless. It won’t. But wishing for a pony isn’t going to solve the massive future challenges we face. And the alternative is to keep spending our money to make our problems worse, dig our hole deeper, and compound the long-term misery.

We can’t have it both ways. There can be no meaningful progress on alternative transportation until we stop acting as if car capacity is sacred. Rising energy costs and cultural evolution can both be expected to help move us in that direction eventually. And both local and state policies have established the goal of reducing driving.

But so far, the only truly effective means we have to reduce reliance on cars—curtailing capacity—is still a political non-starter. And that attitude needs to change fast. Because the effects of transportation infrastructure investments play out at the regional scale over decades-long timeframes. The time to starting breaking the vicious cycle is now.

I guess Jarvis Street would be Toronto's experiment or example.
 
At my office in Markham, all the sales guys and senior managers (total of about 20-25 folks) get a no charge company car as their personal vehicle, including all gas, insurance, 407 tolls, etc. Parking at the office is free for everyone. What incentive would these guys need to take the TTC? When I get to that level, I'll get the car too, and have no financial incentive to take the bus.

And that's fine. Even in the most transit friendly cities and regions, it cannot do everything for everyone. Any system which has set routes will always have some limitations to a mode where you can go door to door directly. At least you live in a high density neighbourhood where you can do small shops, go out for dinner and entertainment, etc. without driving or an extended bike ride. With that said, if any of your business trips require going downtown, you should consider driving to Yorkdale (or York Mills, if your company will pay for parking ;) ), or Don Mills if the 401 is backed up.

I think the focus needs to be on sustainable development and density rather than transit. Transit can play a part, but it is hardly the end-all and be-all to sustainable communities. There are plenty of villages and small towns across Ontario which are well designed and have not become victim to sprawl, yet have crappy transit - if any at all. Likewise, many areas in the outer parts of Toronto have frequent, 24 hour bus service. Yet that doesn't mean they are well designed necessarily. I also think public transit needs to update its approach: Stopping at every side street to let people on and off worked 100 years ago when cities covered a very small area, and car ownership was significantly lower. Even basic services need to take a 'rapid transit' approach, with stops every kilometer or so and rapid boarding. Right of ways and signal priority should also be used on heavier used routes.

Article from Publicola.net:



I guess Jarvis Street would be Toronto's experiment or example.

Worth mentioning that it is double sided. If we reduced the 401 back to 4 lanes, it is unlikely that a crosstown trip during rush hour would take the same amount of time as it does today. Even if it didn't take as long as it was expected, other arterials would take the overflow. The way I see it, adding lanes to a road is like adding buses to a route. If a bus route is severely underserved, then adding more buses will help to releave crowding. Likewise, if you add too many buses, they begin to bunch and it reduces efficiency. Same with roads: If a roadway is operating at capacity, adding lanes can help to address that. Likewise, if you add too many lanes to a highway then it reduces efficiency due to the extra caution required to make lane changes safely. This usually happens if a road is more than 3-4 lanes wide (northbound Highway 400 between the 401 and Major Mackenzie is a great example).

I would argue that population growth plays just as big a part, if not a larger, in terms of congestion as lane widening. It is almost like a "which came first: chicken or the egg?" situation. Population grows, so we widen our roads. The extra capacity can cause more people to move in and the roads get congested again, etc. In Greater Toronto's case, with the exception of the 407 which is a toll highway, we have not seen a significant improvement in our transportation infrastructure (both transit and roads) since the 70s and 80s. Meanwhile, I estimate that the Toronto CMA population has doubled (cannot seem to find the figures from Google, please feel free to correct this assumption) in this time period!

This is an excellent blog post and comment section regarding transit and road widening, with regards to congestion: http://www.humantransit.org/2010/07/what-does-transit-do-about-traffic-congestion-1.html
EDIT: The unrevised version, because the comments in it are that good imo http://www.humantransit.org/2010/07/what-does-transit-do-about-traffic-congestion.html
 
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One solution could be to make some already existing streets transit and LRT only corridors, with only delivery and emergency vehicles on the sides of them, and to also construct additional highways and roads to compensate for that loss so it can be faster travel for everyone.
 
Automobile dependency in North America: Some NYS numbers...and a LI comparison...

WKL: Interesting pictures of the Macdonald/Cartier Freeway (ONT 401) from the 50s era...I knew that it was designed as a "beltway" around the then City of Toronto but I never realized that so close to the City it originally had only two lanes in each direction...

It reminds me of the Long Island Expressway (Interstate 495 formerly NYS 495) because soon afterward or with the LIE it was obsolete from day one because of the traffic volume that would make use of it even with three lanes each way as originally designed...today only the easternmost section in Suffolk County E of NYS 112 which dates from the early 70s comes close to its designed capacity...that point is a dividing line of sorts from more open areas to the E and the major sprawling suburbs to the W...the LIE from that point on W has HOV lanes in both directions and continuous service roads on both sides of it that are one way in the paralleling direction...in the 80s the sections that were missing were built and in places more lanes have been added in congested areas...but the LIE can still become the "longest parking lot" at prime travel times...I am posting this on Labor Day (September 6th) and even with Friday's Earl threat this is one of the busiest East End
(Hamptons,Montauk,etc...) weekends of the year and the afternoon/evening traffic for the big "return" will no doubt be heavy...

Does anyone know of or how to get Ontario registration and license information like this posted by the NYS DMV?
They list all registrations types in force by vehicle type and licenses by male/female driver by county...
www.nydmv.state.ny.us/statistics/regin09.htm for registrations and www.nydmv.state.ny.us/statistics/statli09.htm for licenses.
The figures for the City of Toronto and counties/regions would be interesting to compare...
Note that Nassau and Suffolk Counties have the highest registration ratio in NYS to population...

I have these figures from the 2007 World Almanac-Nassau: 1,333,137 and Suffolk: 1,474,927.
They total 2,808,064 which I believe is a similar size population to today's City of Toronto...
Note the combined stats for the 5 NYC Boroughs...remember that NYC has now over 8 million people...
The ratio of vehicle ownership is far less...and as many know mass transit in NYC is used far more then in Nassau/Suffolk...
Even with heavily used mass transit services like the Long Island Rail Road and lesser used County-operated bus operations in both...
(LI Bus in Nassau and Suffolk Transit in Suffolk) the sprawling suburbs were designed to be auto-dependent.

I do find stats like auto registrations by County interesting because it alone shows the dependence that North America has on the automobile and that mass transit in many areas needs to be improved to have that balanced transport system we all need...

Thoughts and opinions from Long Island Mike
 
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