[freshcutgrass]

Obviously the guy has a chip or he wouldn't be wasting his new membership on a Toronto forum spamming about how dull Toronto is with ridiculous excuses that insult our intelligence.

 

[steveintoronto]

The bottom line remains the cause d'etre of this string: *No-one is denying Bradley writ large the right to blast his ears drums to numbness*. No-one! There are many clubs that do that in Toronto.

The issue remains the *right* of others not to have to listen to it. And that means retaining the status quo for The Rebel and the Cabana (sounds like a C.S. Lewis fantasy novel).

As it stands, next to no noise emanates from the 'end of the street' to the immediate neighbours, let alone those across the water.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

No personal attacks please.

MoD

 

[rbt]

Ok, ignore critically acclaimed restaurants with strict criteria. And FYI Tokyo has the most Michelin starred restaurants in the world, and that is an exciting city. Plus that was not the only thing on the list.

Of course it does. Japanese consume French culture like it's water; a massive %age of Michelin's non-France readership is in Japan; and they're known to Paris for weekend trips in large numbers. Another big chunk of their readership is in Britain (guess where else has a number of Michelin star rated restaurants?).

Subscribe to the guide. Convince 100,000 other Canadians to do the same. Shortly after that Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver will have a couple dozen Michelin stars.

Toronto restaurants are doing just fine. Don't use biased sources as a sole reference.


Next up for this conversation: Why does London top the GaWC studies produced by Loughborough University in England?

 

[freshcutgrass]

Of course it does. Japanese consume French culture like it's water; a massive %age of Michelin's non-France readership is in Japan; and they're known to Paris for weekend trips in large numbers. Another big chunk of their readership is in Britain (guess where else has a number of Michelin star rated restaurants?).

Subscribe to the guide. Convince 100,000 other Canadians to do the same. Shortly after that Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver will have a couple dozen Michelin stars.

Toronto restaurants are doing just fine. Don't use biased sources as a sole reference.


Next up for this conversation: Why does London top the GaWC studies produced by Loughborough University in England?

That's because Tokyo is conservative, mono-cultured, and yet obsessed with western branded luxury. It is the antithesis of Toronto. It's just so huge, and Japanese culture is interesting (for a visit). Other asian cities are just worse versions of Tokyo. Singapore is fun...if your three favorite things are shopping, gambling and sweating.

What's the lifespan of this club anyhow? Like all it's ilk, it's just a placeholder looking for cheap rent until it's redeveloped. What's the timeline for this section of the Portlands project? I think the best new area for these kind of places is out in the former industrial zones that are being repurposed (I'm thinking the Castlefield Design District area). Large buildings, cheap rent, lots of parking for stretch SUV's and no residential neighbours to complain.

I think people tend to forget that the Island community is a rare and unique place that should be protected. What other major city can boast at its urban core, a car-less residential/recreational island, complete with nude beach!!

 

[Bradley Libralesso]

Ah yes, Tokyo.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...the-first-time-in-fifteen-years-10092927.html

Noise Regulation Law
http://www.env.go.jp/en/laws/air/noise/

And yet by your terms, Bradley, Tokyo must be "so boring". How many Michelin stars does "boring" earn?

Edit to Add: My time is limited for a smack-down, but the absurdities of Bradley's claims must be addressed, so readers can get an idea from these pasted-in Google results:

Dancing is against the law in Osaka!? - Osaka Forum - TripAdvisor
https://www.tripadvisor.com › ... › Osaka Prefecture › Osaka › Osaka Travel Forum
Jun 29, 2012 - Answer 1 of 13: Yup, there is a law on the books that hasn't been enforced ... People drinking in bars with loud music cannot get up and dance. .... Although I live and like Tokyo, Osaka is a much more sensible place to me.

Bangkok’s nightlife shuts down, and no one knows when the party will resume
Death of revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej has pulled the plug on the entertainment that draws many visitors to Thailand, but people working in tourist trade don’t see a long-term impact [...]

http://www.scmp.com/culture/music/a...-down-and-no-one-knows-when-party-will-resume

Japan’s fueihō (or "entertainment business control law") code governs everything from dancing, to drinking, to sex work, to nightclubs. Since its inception in 1948, the set of laws has technically forbade the existence of nightclubs under 66 square meters in size to allow dancing or for any sized club to allow dancing after midnight or 1 a.m. (depending on the area). For decades, officials turned a blind eye to the code, but in the last five years, police began enforcing the laws, leading to the closure of many dance halls and clubs. That, coupled with factors like the aging of Japan, threatened to decimate the country's clubbing culture. [...]
http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/888-h...laws-threaten-to-decimate-their-club-culture/

Bradley dances with the unintended consequences of his claims...and keeps treading on her toes while doing it...

Edit to Add:


I presume you were stunned by the volume?

Never been to Bangkok so can't really comment on there.

As for the suburb in Tokyo, that is a great piece of logic, one suburb of the 9000 sq feet of Tokyo has a strict noise regulation bylaw,so that must be a good representation of all of Tokyo right? Also clearly you have not lived in Japan, because many of the laws that do prohibit on entertainment are not actually followed. For instance gambling is technically illegal there, yet on every corner there is a gambling parlour.

Anyways this is getting way off top from the actual point of this thread, so I am going to stop here. It seems the discussion is going nowhere anyways.

 

[Bradley Libralesso]

I think the best new area for these kind of places is out in the former industrial zones that are being repurposed (I'm thinking the Castlefield Design District area). Large buildings, cheap rent, lots of parking for stretch SUV's and no residential neighbours to complain.

I agree those areas should be redeveloped, and clubs would make a perfect fit. My only concern would be that you said there is lots of parking, and public transit to those areas is usually horrible, so this might promote drunken driving.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I agree those areas should be redeveloped, and clubs would make a perfect fit. My only concern would be that you said there is lots of parking, and public transit to those areas is usually horrible, so this might promote drunken driving.

Actually, the area is well served by various feeder routes with quick access to the subway (Eglinton, Lawrence, Dufferin, Caledonia, etc). At any rate, much better than the current situation at Cabana. (I wonder if Cabana has water taxi service?)

And the only thing promoting drinking and driving, are people stupid enough to drink and drive (and perhaps the club owners who dont care)

 

[steveintoronto]

It seems the discussion is going nowhere anyways.

To you, perhaps. I think it's been quite informative. Toronto *is not* 'Victorian' in the respect of nightclubs, totally contrary to your claim. You were the one that started lambasting Toronto in general ("boring" ring a bell?) when the cause d'etre of this string all along is not whether Toronto is being prudish at all, it's about whether The Docks in whatever iteration can return to the past when it propagated large amounts of audio energy across flat bodies of water and land to the point of disturbing distant neighbours, let alone immediate ones who have a sense of decorum, responsibility and protocol.

If anything, Toronto's noise by-laws are not explicit and tough enough, let alone poorly enforced. This has nothing to do with the sound pressure level *inside* a contained structure. It has everything to do with propagated audio energy outside.

Try transmitting that distance with radio frequencies and see how far you get with the Feds save for GRS, (commonly known at Citizen's Band, a US term) which, btw, has strict limits on what is termed "input power" to the radiating array.

Operators may not operate a GRS station on any aircraft or vessel without permission of the appropriate aircraft or vessel officer.

The legal radio frequency (RF) power output limits for a GRS transmitter are:

• 12 watts peak envelope power for single sideband;
• 4 watts carrier power for other types of emissions.

Section 30 of the Radiocommunication Regulations states that a person may operate radio apparatus in respect of which a radio authorization has been issued only where the person complies with the terms and conditions of the authorization. For example, the use of a power amplifier capable of boosting the output power of a GRS transmitter is forbidden. These devices are also known as linear amplifiers, boots, linears, etc.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf01016.html

How "boring" those Feds are! Expecting the air-waves to be shared with respect by all who participate and partake.

Damn, can't have any fun anymore with our 10kW pirate radio station...not like in Cambodia...

Make no mistake, there's plenty of things to fault Toronto on, but noise by-laws are, if anything, not tight enough compared to the norm in almost all other large *civilized* cities.

Meantime, the real music scene in Toronto thrives, but once again, it's gone underground. Discussion amongst the principles in my latest musical project is whether to tailor a set to 'play out' or not, and even if it does, do we stoop and compromise ourselves to play in a bar to mindless drunks and morons? Most of the seasoned talent in Toronto and elsewhere right now thinks not. Bars and clubs, with few exceptions, are such incredibly facile and unrewarding and unappreciative venues to play. There are exceptions, Busty and the Bass are such a tonic, just out of college, filling bars *with their own crowd* and playing great stuff. Thank God...

I just hope Hugh's Room can crawl out of the ashes and fly again. I have doubts...

 

[Bradley Libralesso]

Actually, the area is well served by various feeder routes with quick access to the subway (Eglinton, Lawrence, Dufferin, Caledonia, etc). At any rate, much better than the current situation at Cabana. (I wonder if Cabana has water taxi service?)

And the only thing promoting drinking and driving, are people stupid enough to drink and drive (and perhaps the club owners who dont care)

Sorry I should have clarified, I was talking in general about those old industrial areas that are a bit more far out of the city like north Etobicoke and such that are hard to get to.

Castlefield district though would be a perfect location given its more or less central location, and the actual physical area of the place.

 

[Bradley Libralesso]

You were the one that started lambasting Toronto in general ("boring" ring a bell?) when the cause d'etre of this string all along is not whether Toronto is being prudish at all, it's about whether The Docks in whatever iteration can return to the past when it propagated large amounts of audio energy across flat bodies of water and land to the point of disturbing distant neighbours, let alone immediate ones who have a sense of decorum, responsibility and protocol.

That's why I said the conversation is going nowhere, it moved so incredibly far from what this thread is about.

Hey if you want to discuss the excitement of the city, it's zoning bylaws, it's culture, etc, I am all for a discussion. I just feel we were hijacking this thread to have it, and it is unfair to the original poster. Especially because earlier I already conceeded that this particular nightclub expansion is not really what the city needs. Then I went off on my rant, and threw a wrench into the whole discussion. That totally was my fault.

 

[steveintoronto]

(I wonder if Cabana has water taxi service?)

They have a shuttle bus from downtown somewhere. I try to ignore as much as I can about the open sore at the end of Polson. It's bad enough pushing them out of way when loading and unloading into the practice studios next door. Some of them are alright, just vacant, compliant consumers without a hope or real culture. I feel kinda sorry for most...

And the only thing promoting drinking and driving, are people stupid enough to drink and drive (and perhaps the club owners who dont care)

Over Christmas and New Year's especially, there were a large number of corporate events where they paid for cabs en-masse, and asked their employees/associates not to drive. Makes good sense, not mention what the Law states on that now, but the line-up of cabs went on for hours, from the end of Polson, to...wait for it...up Cherry even north of the Lakeshore. Fortunately *most* of the cabbies had the sense (or the fear of getting ticketed) not to block intersections. Oddly, there were still the occasional stragglers walking along Polson and up Cherry. I asked a few why? "We're staff, we don't get taxis". For those folks, most of them kids, I felt very sorry. Fortunately the temps were well above the norm this year, in years past when I lived down there, there was no TTC outside of peak, and that stretch of Cherry is very exposed to the elements. "The good old days"...lol...not, at least in respect of the cold. On the upside, until The Docks opened, and the infection set in, it was idyll down there. Some incredible talent came out of those basements, and we were left alone to produce it.

 

[steveintoronto]

They have a shuttle bus from downtown somewhere. I try to ignore as much as I can about the open sore at the end of Polson. It's bad enough pushing them out of way when loading and unloading into the practice studios next door. Some of them are alright, just vacant, compliant consumers without a hope or real culture. I feel kinda sorry for most...

Over Christmas and New Year's especially, there were a large number of corporate events where they paid for cabs en-masse, and asked their employees/associates not to drive. Makes good sense, not mention what the Law states on that now, but the line-up of cabs went on for hours, from the end of Polson, to...wait for it...up Cherry even north of the Lakeshore. Fortunately *most* of the cabbies had the sense (or the fear of getting ticketed) not to block intersections. Oddly, there were still the occasional stragglers walking along Polson and up Cherry. I asked a few why? "We're staff, we don't get taxis". For those folks, most of them kids, I felt very sorry. Fortunately the temps were well above the norm this year, in years past when I lived down there, there was no TTC outside of peak, and that stretch of Cherry is very exposed to the elements. "The good old days"...lol...not in some respects, albeit I'd do it all again.

Castlefield district though would be a perfect location given its more or less central location, and the actual physical area of the place.

Look, you STILL miss the essential point! When does this ever sink in? Personally, I have nothing against the *laws permitting the present use of Polson Pier for entertainment purposes*! Others might, but that is because of societal issues.

This string is all about *un-contained massive amounts of audio power* being let loose on exposed neighbourhoods in the city.

If a club *contains* their ridiculous audio levels in the Castlefield neighbourhood (and there *are* close residents to that area, you obviously don't know the area well, I used to drive cab in this city for years) then it comes down to whether the area can support the other contingencies of these operations, like traffic, crowd noise, litter, transportation, drunkeness, etc, etc.

The crucial point of this string is *STILL* contained sound pressure or not.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Sorry I should have clarified, I was talking in general about those old industrial areas that are a bit more far out of the city like north Etobicoke and such that are hard to get to.

Castlefield district though would be a perfect location given its more or less central location, and the actual physical area of the place.

As much as I hate Rexdale, I wouldn't wish that fate on them.

Downsview would be another good area to rezone as a Clubland type district....Allen/Sheppard/Steeprock area...direct access to subway & 401. Closer to the 905ers who are the demographic for these places (and keep them away from downtown).

 

[Bradley Libralesso]

As much as I hate Rexdale, I wouldn't wish that fate on them.

Downsview would be another good area to rezone as a Clubland type district....Allen/Sheppard/Steeprock area...direct access to subway & 401. Closer to the 905ers who are the demographic for these places (and keep them away from downtown).

As much as I hate Rexdale, I wouldn't wish that fate on them.

Downsview would be another good area to rezone as a Clubland type district....Allen/Sheppard/Steeprock area...direct access to subway & 401. Closer to the 905ers who are the demographic for these places (and keep them away from downtown).

Downsview would be good, they already host that rock music festival in Downsview park in the summer, (correct me if I'm wrong but I think they host the EDM one there too). Perhaps a more permanent seasonal nightclub could do something there. In honesty though I'm not in that area much so I don't know the logistics of that. It is close to York university atleast, so it has viable customers. I can't really remember if there are houses near that park though.