[kennyx]

Yes, it is English and French. It's our culture. That's Canada.

Things change. I'd say we're definately more 'multi'-cultured than just English and French. Hell, -I'd bet there are probably more Chinese in Toronto than French.

If you want keep believing that it's just black and white out there, that's fine... but I think you're a dying breed.

 

[syn]

Yeah, I was wondering about that, actually. Since I'm pretty sure Chinese doesn't have a pure syllabic alphabet alternative like Japanese does for spelling foreign words but I guess this is another way of doing that.

Anyways, I don't see how it's a way of teaching English since a person can just rely on reading the Chinese all day, rather than having to pick up English to get around, nor do I think that street signs are the proper place to be teaching immigrants to speak English, but hey, whatever.

Re: Topic. The McCaul sign looks more aesthetically pleasing to me.

They're not reading Chinese. It's just helps people learn the English street name, and it's been around for ages. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[AKS]

Well, I've lived in Toronto since I was a kid and to give you some brief ideas. I think the street signs are just to show the culture in the area and not actually meant to be useful at all. Those characters written on the sign is in Traditional Chinese. When I was young, it was mostly occupied by Vietnamese Chinese (probably immigrants from vietnam war pre and post), some Cantonese speaker chinese (not sure if they're from HK) and some Vietnamese. Overall most seem to speak Cantonese. But later the occupants seem to be all Vietnamese immigrants who don't read Chinese. All the Chinese moved to Scarborough then spread to Richmond Hill and Markham. China town was occupied by Vietnamese.

In the last few years or more most of the occupants seem to be from mainland China cuz I can't communicate with most of them. They speak Mandarin. Mainland China uses simplified chinese writing. I don't know if they even read the traditional letters on the street signs.

It's called Chinatown because that was the culture that existed/occupied there once and probably preserved in name. Who knows which community would occupy it in the next decade.

As for khristopher racist remark. I don't think you fully comprehend all aspects of why people immigrate. Some may not have had a choice to leave their country. Some people move to in order to survive some may have chosen by choice. My dad thought the same as you did, but he's uneducated (high school drop out) so I don't blame him. But I expected better from educated people.

If your ideal is to have English/French only the population in Ontario would be about half of what it is right now or less. I don't think you would have such a thriving Toronto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario (2001 census)
Canadian 3,350,275 29.7
English 2,711,485 24
French 1,235,765 10.9

Moreover, if you want to talk about original ownership. I think you should leave the country too. Canada was occupied by native Indians. We should actually be speaking like natives, not English or French.

 

[ShonTron]

That was well said. The traditional Chinese script in Chinatown makes sense, partly as it was Cantonese-speaking Chinese (from Hong Kong and Guangdong Province) that arrived here first and established the businesses. Then Chinese living in Viet Nam who had to flee. The Mainland Chinese (of whom several families our family are friends with) are the current wave and most commonly settle in northern Scarborough.

Simplified Chinese was introduced about 1950 by the Mao government to help promote literacy, though many characters were untouched, others, the number of strokes were reduced, but can often have the same basic form. However, traditional script is still regularly used in mainland art and for autographs. Many mainland Chinese would be able to read simple signs in traditional script. I believe Singapore also uses the simplied script as well, but Taiwan and the SARs use traditional.

I would suggest that anyone who thinks Canada should only be English or French should go to Timmins, where the franco-ontarien population is quite high, or northern New Brunswick. Lots of English and French speakers, but few others. I would suggest Sudbury (also a relatively bilingual city), except on the Paris Street Bridge they fly the flags of about 100 countries. One might get the feeling that only the flag of Canada should be there.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Well they didn't have to come here in the first place I certainly wouldn't move to China, if I couldn't speak a Chinese language. I wouldn't go to Russia, unless I could speak Russian. I wouldn't go to Japan, unless I could speak Japanese, etc. etc. etc.
And actually I believe it is the law to provide public services in the official languages of our country.

That is your prerogative not to move to those other countries. However, if you want your vision of English and French-only Canada, then feel free to lose your job and watch the economy tank. I'm a little offended that you think that adding a at the end of an offensive comment makes it less offensive.

Canada has survived and been so successful since the 1990s because of immigration and the fact that we welcome our immigrants through subtle things like letting them hold onto their culture while providing opportunities to integrate with overall "Canadian" culture. We provide programs like ESL and FSL to help them learn the official languages. This is what Canada is about and it's mighty ethnocentric and borderline racist if you don't want them here.

 

[khris]

Well, I've lived in Toronto since I was a kid and to give you some brief ideas. I think the street signs are just to show the culture in the area and not actually meant to be useful at all. Those characters written on the sign is in Traditional Chinese. When I was young, it was mostly occupied by Vietnamese Chinese (probably immigrants from vietnam war pre and post), some Cantonese speaker chinese (not sure if they're from HK) and some Vietnamese. Overall most seem to speak Cantonese. But later the occupants seem to be all Vietnamese immigrants who don't read Chinese. All the Chinese moved to Scarborough then spread to Richmond Hill and Markham. China town was occupied by Vietnamese.

In the last few years or more most of the occupants seem to be from mainland China cuz I can't communicate with most of them. They speak Mandarin. Mainland China uses simplified chinese writing. I don't know if they even read the traditional letters on the street signs.

It's called Chinatown because that was the culture that existed/occupied there once and probably preserved in name. Who knows which community would occupy it in the next decade.

As for khristopher racist remark. I don't think you fully comprehend all aspects of why people immigrate. Some may not have had a choice to leave their country. Some people move to in order to survive some may have chosen by choice. My dad thought the same as you did, but he's uneducated (high school drop out) so I don't blame him. But I expected better from educated people.

If your ideal is to have English/French only the population in Ontario would be about half of what it is right now or less. I don't think you would have such a thriving Toronto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario (2001 census)
Canadian 3,350,275 29.7
English 2,711,485 24
French 1,235,765 10.9

Moreover, if you want to talk about original ownership. I think you should leave the country too. Canada was occupied by native Indians. We should actually be speaking like natives, not English or French.

I am not racist, I am Canadian. Canada is a bilingual country. Simple facts, whether you like it or not.
Also I am part native.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Also I am part native.

So?

 

[TKTKTK]

So?

So he can entirely ignore natives' contribution to Canada, and Canadian identity. You can do this to black people if you have at least ONE black friend (then you can't be racist!)

 

[cabbagetowner]

So he can entirely ignore natives' contribution to Canada, and Canadian identity. You can do this to black people if you have at least ONE black friend (then you can't be racist!)

and if you eat chinese food, then you're in the clear.

 

[TKTKTK]

and if you eat chinese food, then you're in the clear.

True, especially if it's from Ho-lee-chow or the Mandarin.

 

[Tewder]

The traditional Chinese script in Chinatown makes sense, partly as it was Cantonese-speaking Chinese (from Hong Kong and Guangdong Province) that arrived here first and established the businesses.

Okay, so it's perfectly fine to assert that we should preserve a foreign language on street signs because the Cantonese Chinese were the first Chinese to arrive in the street, but to suggest we should preserve the overall heritage of the nation because the English/French arrived first, lived here for hundreds of years and built the nation is somehow unpalatable to you?

Guess what? I was just in China, and saw a lot of English signs (most of which were near correct or actually correct, if not slightly awkward). China has extremely few people who speak English as a first language, but it's on road signs, business signs, public notices in transportation terminals, on TV.

That is a different phenomenon at play. English is being used as a sort of de facto lingua franca. This is increasingly common in developing nations that have many regional languages, but is indeed also common all around the world. This situation is distinctly different from that of countries that are anglophone to begin with, like Canada (except for Quebec which is a whole other can of worms).

I don't think anybody has an issue with private enterprises that use foreign languages (again, except those pesky Quebecois), vive le free market! What some people may take issue with, and legitimately so, is the tax-funded/government-supported use of them. For me personally it's not a big deal but I can undrestand somebody not agreeing without necessarily jumping to the conclusion that they are racists or nationalistic fascists

What "attitudes" would that be? Is being pro-assimilation/integration a bad thing...? You could say it's overreacting, but as far as I can tell this is just part of a bigger trend....

P.S. Maybe the signature is a bit much, but I didn't know the Canadian flag was so offensive nowadays... Is it so bad to like your country?...

I'm with theowne here! This nonsense that nobody can assert their Canadian-ness without offending is tiresome, and can we please stop the endless deconstructing of what it is to be Canadian?! Bottom line: Canada is primarily a franco/anglo-heritage nation with a tolerant and diverse multicultural population. There. Inclusive of everyone in the right proportions. Next!

As for khristopher racist remark. I don't think you fully comprehend all aspects of why people immigrate. Some may not have had a choice to leave their country. Some people move to in order to survive some may have chosen by choice. My dad thought the same as you did, but he's uneducated (high school drop out) so I don't blame him. But I expected better from educated people.

May I suggest to moderators that we henceforth automatically ban anybody who gratuitously lobs the term 'racist' around without first submitting a ten page (however many gigabytes is that??) treatise on why they are making the claim?

As for AKS's remarks, big deal!! We all came here at one time or another for one tragic reason or another. Get over it! We evolve into Canada, not the other way around.

 

[TKTKTK]

Okay, so it's perfectly fine to assert that we should preserve a foreign language on street signs because the Cantonese Chinese were the first Chinese to arrive in the street, but to suggest we should preserve the overall heritage of the nation because the English/French arrived first, lived here for hundreds of years and built the nation is somehow unpalatable to you?

How is removing Chinese writing from street signs in Chinatown tantamount to preserving the overall heritage of English/French?

I'm with theowne here! This nonsense that nobody can assert their Canadian-ness without offending is tiresome, and can we please stop the endless deconstructing of what it is to be Canadian?! Bottom line: Canada is primarily a franco/anglo-heritage nation with a tolerant and diverse multicultural population. There. Inclusive of everyone in the right proportions. Next!

They're not asserting their Canadian-ness per se, they're asserting that some Canadians are more Canadian than others - based on language alone.

 

[adma]

Moreover, if you want to talk about original ownership. I think you should leave the country too. Canada was occupied by native Indians. We should actually be speaking like natives, not English or French.

You speakum heap good logic

 

[adma]

And here's proof that being First Nations won't let you off the hook, either

 

[ShonTron]

Okay, so it's perfectly fine to assert that we should preserve a foreign language on street signs because the Cantonese Chinese were the first Chinese to arrive in the street, but to suggest we should preserve the overall heritage of the nation because the English/French arrived first, lived here for hundreds of years and built the nation is somehow unpalatable to you?

If that's how you want to take it, be my guest. I'll go one further and suggest that Fort York be destroyed because it is a relic of English rule. As is St. James Cathedral. I suggest each be replaced by a museum of tolerance.