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^Pretty much. My ex-boyfriend was/is exactly like that. From a terriby small rural town in Huron County. Terribly harrassed growing up. Moved to Toronto. Still has anxiety issues and is just miserable towards the whole world while putting everyone and everything down to try and make himself feel better.

Same goes for a good friend of his who I am also still acquainted with. They grew up together.


I tried for a year and a half to make connections in Toronto's gay scene to no avail. I gave up and am now dating a girl. Girls will actually talk to me....gay boys just look down their noses at me. I'm the same, I suppose, DC83. "Straight acting" and all (whatever the hell that means, I still don't really know). When I was making friends at the time I was dating my ex, they would always be surprised to find out I was dating a guy. I remember asking my ex why gay boys would just avoid me altogether. I thought it was cause I was too.....um, Scarborough. lol Or because of my occupation. Or the way I dressed. I don't know. Terrible time.

PS: Vancouver's gay scene in my demographic is just as bad, if not worse. Actually, probably worse.

So sad to see such jaded young assholes parading about. A lot of them could do a lot better with themselves.
 
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Firstly, let me just say the people in Toronto are MUCH friendlier than people in Mississauga. That's something I've noticed.

Secondly, it's so much easier to be gay in Toronto than in Hamilton. I went to Limeridge Mall with my boyfriend and I felt like I was being stared at the whole time.

I hate Hamilton.

But I've always found gay people in Toronto to be very friendly and actively interested in what I do and say. I don't get the feeling they're pretentious and snooty.

But one thing I have noticed is the second you cross over into Etobicoke suddenly it feels like you're in a more gay friendly environment. Back in Mississauga it's like they don't even exist there.
 
This hardly refers to all gay people and certainly not confined to Toronto but there's this large group of gay people that strive to be the Don Rickles of queerdom with their constant put downs of each other and others, masquerading as wit.

It's certainly not an epidemic but you'll encounter a few at any gay venue and beyond. I just steer clear and try to find the fun loving lesbians.
 
Great article! Thanks for posting. In response to the recent thread, I've never found the city or the Village to be unfriendly. I do think we Torontonians can be quite reserved which may be mistaken for being stand-offish. While not everyone may find life long friendships at a night club (though it is certainly possible), they can be found while volunteering, at work, or through mutual friends. You get what you give.
 
I think the whole definition of what "friend" is gets entirely skewed for many guys to be honest. I think the only protection from this is to have a diverse group of friends-- not ghettoizing yourself-- and having gay male friends, strasight male friends, straight female friends, gay female friends (if you can find any ;))... etc.

Of course the bottom line isn't the diversity so much as making sure you surround yourself with quality people. But it's definitely an important point.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to watch friends go to school, make friends only within the gay populace, and get hurt-- so hurt-- as a result. It's not an inherent problem (I'm not self-hating at all) but it definitely still occurs in 2009.
 
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Spire's right; to a T!
Well said, and very true.

Re: Cooool; WOW... I can't believe I stood up for you in a previous post.
You sound just like the rest of them, "I Hate Hamilton!"

What would make ppl stare at you? People don't stare--no matter where you are--unless they have something to stare at.
Were you and your boyfriend holding hands? I'm pretty sure if my boyfriend and I held hands at the Eaton Ctr, we'd get a lot of stares too...
Just don't be so closed-minded and base your assumptions on Hamilton off one situation where you were probably at fault (whether it be something you were doing to be stared at; or simply your self-conscience clawing away at you).

I walk around Hamilton as an openly gay man at Limeridge, at Jackson Square, in Gore Park and in the Embassy (gay bar). I prolly get more 'stares' at embassy than anywhere else in this City!

Queer West Village

I've started hanging out in Queer West, aka Parkdale aka Queen West, the last couple of weeks, and I find the crowd out there a lot more like myself/on my level than in the Village.

What do you guys think about Queer West Gays? Any better fo real; or am I just lucky?
 
DC83 said:
Queer West Village

I've started hanging out in Queer West, aka Parkdale aka Queen West, the last couple of weeks, and I find the crowd out there a lot more like myself/on my level than in the Village.

What do you guys think about Queer West Gays? Any better fo real; or am I just lucky?
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That's where my ex and his friends chill. And even without them, I'd say it's roughly the same. But then, over there, it's not just the 18-24 year old gay boys that are pretentious but damn well near three quarters of all the denizens.

Toronto's just a very pretentious place, I find. It's kind of sad. I've started to avoid some spots because of this. I can't stand the looking down on people/king shit attitudes/better than thou/dismissal based on appearance/etc.

I've actually just started seeking out the places where the old folks chill. The asshole quotient is far smaller and I guess I have enough friends that making new ones is a thing of the past here in Toronto.
 
MTown, I don't quite get the gist of your thesis yet; do you mean that Toronto is pretentious or gay men tend to be?

I am not being a jerk, I actually just want to know.

Because if the problem for you is Toronto, then I could also say there are other cities where the entiiiire population (not just gay) seem to be far more pretentious than Torontonians.

As for gay men, I think the issue that causes these pretentious attitudes is victimization-- a sense of being wronged by the world, and being really hung up on that. It's hard to get past, and it's a shame that so many people can't. Especially when there is so much to be happy about most of the time.
 
I'm sorry, but in my defense I live in Hamilton for 3/4 of the year and I have my reasons for disliking it. I don't like the people (at McMaster and) in Hamilton. It's an okay place to raise a family I guess because there are a lot of nice nieghbourhoods in the west end and on the mountain but it just lacks the same dynamism that Toronto has. Jackson Square is the laughing stock of Hamilton and it seems only seniors go into the downtown area.

To be fair, I'm from Mississauga, and I've become so accustomed to the surrounding area I just can't adjust to Hamilton.
 
SP!RE said:
MTown, I don't quite get the gist of your thesis yet; do you mean that Toronto is pretentious or gay men tend to be?
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A bit of both. I'm saying that Torontonians in general in large swaths of the city tend to be a touch pretentious for my liking but gay males 18-24 seem to be even moreso. I'm 24 and this is the demographic I tend to deal with most.

Because if the problem for you is Toronto, then I could also say there are other cities where the entiiiire population (not just gay) seem to be far more pretentious than Torontonians.
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Oh, I bet there are, though I shudder at the thought. I love Toronto and I speak highly of it everywhere I go, especially in Vancouver where I get asked: "Why would you want to go back there?" all too often, but I always remember the unfortunate number of just plain assholes that reside here when speaking thus.


As for gay men, I think the issue that causes these pretentious attitudes is victimization-- a sense of being wronged by the world, and being really hung up on that. It's hard to get past, and it's a shame that so many people can't. Especially when there is so much to be happy about most of the time.
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Yes, I also think this is true. At least in my experience with my ex, I know that was the case for him and our mutual acquaintance. That's actually exactly it.

It is sad that some can't get past it and keep putting up barriers when they're well past a situation in which they have to. I saw it with my ex as it got worse and worse. It was hard to see someone that close to you fall so hard. It also wasn't the healthiest for our relationship. Damn, it wasn't at all. lol When someone you love starts lashing out even at you because they've been wronged so much.....sucks, for sure.



In the end, I think I find a lot of people to be unecessarily abrasive and pretentious perhaps because of the way I am. I think I'm more sensitive to people who are not......I don't know how to put this.....overly friendly, accepting, and kind...I guess. It's to do with my own self-image problems of the past (and on and off in the present) I think.
 
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God, Toronto's not even close to being as pretentious as it could be.

I can think of 2 big Canadian cities that outdo Toronto in this regard 10 and 20 fold.

Pretentiousness is part of big city life (except maybe for Sydney). And you'll find it in any group in any city (except maybe Sydney). But there's something Canadian about avoiding it rather than embracing it.

It's a big enough city that you can move from group to group until you find your niche. So pretense is avoidable. But really, while you're young, it's kinda fun and when you're in your 30s (hopefully) you'll look back and realize what a twat you were but revel in the fact you're now a better person and seek out all those you've hurt on facebook and make a big apology :).
 
^Calgary and Ottawa?

Cause it sure as hell isn't Montreal and Vancouver.

Or am I perpetually high off my face? :confused:

PS: What's this "facebook" you speak of?

PPS: Toronto's great. Full stop. Lots of wikkid people. Full stop. Full apologies for being a party to the derailment of this thread.
 
Something that I noticed many, many years ago is when I walk alone, or sit outside in the summer and have a coffee alone I rarely get approached by anyone nor do many (but not all) people want to strike up conversation when I approach them. I'm in decent shape, I don't look like Zac Efron but I don't think I'm exactly hard on the eyes either. However since I took up having a dog several years ago I practically need a swatter to shoo people away who want to meet her and strike up conversation both in my neighbourhood (The Village) and as I walk through other areas. I don't shoo people away of course, I love to talk and meet people. This dog is a magnet.

As I spent some time catching up on this thread today this thought suddenly occurred to me. If you were "dog friendly", would you stop and talk to me to meet a dog like this?

sketch_queens-park5_Aug-09.jpg


Anyway, I guess my point goes back to an earlier post of mine in this thread where I stated that once you get past the thick skin of some Torontonians they can be very friendly. Point proven when I have my dog with me, which is most of the time when I'm out and about.
 
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