[Cooool]

I made a thread earlier about Toronto's obsession with diversity, and many had said that Toronto was diverse unlike many American cities. But youèd be surprised how diverse some major American cities are, even moreso than Toronto. San Francisco and New York seem very non-segregated. Meanwhile, Detroit and Washington DC are clearly racially segregated.

Red represents white. Blue represents African Americans, Orange represents hispanics, and Green represents Asians.

New York City

Los Angeles

Chicago

San Francisco

Boston

Washington DC

Seattle

Detroit

 

[khris]

San Francisco seems to be the most mixed of those cities.

As for your point, you have only 4 categories there. That doesn't mean diverse. Toronto is more diverse as we represent more countries and cultures than typical cities.

 

[doady]

New York is extremely segregated, according to that map. Toronto is not like that at all. In all those cities, there mostly two types of neighbourhoods: white neighbourhoods, and non-white neighbourhoods. Even San Francisco has huge swathes of white suburban neighbourhoods, but otherwise it is no doubt the closest to the way Toronto is. Los Angeles would be second closest because the boundaries are soft, but the degree of clustering is still much higher than in Toronto.

These maps show that, in America, for most people, every single one of your neighbours will be of the same race. We talking about 100% or close to 100% of the same race in the entire neighbourhood, or even the entire municipality. You don't see that in Toronto.

 

[urbandreamer]

^But all that has to do with history. American history is vastly different than Canadian. Hispanics obviously traditionally were in Texas/LA/southern states and many of the black folk came to cities from plantations and the rural south. Much of the segregation is also economic--which racial groups are more likely to be wealthy vs poor etc?

Canada's diversity is almost exclusively through modern immigration--c.1960s.

Mind you, Toronto is pretty ghettoized as well--just look at the Weston Rd/Oakwood area and compare it to Little Portugal for example.

 

[Cooool]

I was always under the impression the Sunset District in San Francisco was over 90% asian. By the looks of it, it seems there are more white people than I thought.

And I think people overestimate Toronto's diversity. People have said that Toronto represents more cultures around the world, but Toronto seems to only have a lot of asians and indians. In the same sense that San Francisco has many asians and hispanics. In the same sense that New York has many African Americans and hispanics. I don't see how Toronto is so different. As someone else mentioned before, the segregation in New York is a result of income disparities. Nonetheless, they are still living and interacting within the same city.

 

[doady]

I was always under the impression the Sunset District in San Francisco was over 90% asian. By the looks of it, it seems there are more white people than I thought.

And I think people overestimate Toronto's diversity. People have said that Toronto represents more cultures around the world, but Toronto seems to only have a lot of asians and indians. In the same sense that San Francisco has many asians and hispanics. In the same sense that New York has many African Americans and hispanics.

You do realize that in the US context, African American and hispanics each are mostly just one ethnic group, while in Canada, Asian means many different ethnic groups, don't you?

You act like people in Toronto overrate its diversity, but the fact is Americans say the exact same thing about Toronto. Black NBA players come to Toronto and point out the diversity of Toronto as well. Why you get so upset aobut it, I don't know.

I don't see how Toronto is so different. As someone else mentioned before, the segregation in New York is a result of income disparities.

So it is based on income disparities. What is your point?

Nonetheless, they are still living and interacting within the same city.

But not in the same neighbourhood or the same schools. The fact is that people of different backgrounds in Toronto interact with each other more than any city in the US shown above.

^But all that has to do with history. American history is vastly different than Canadian. Hispanics obviously traditionally were in Texas/LA/southern states and many of the black folk came to cities from plantations and the rural south. Much of the segregation is also economic--which racial groups are more likely to be wealthy vs poor etc?

Canada's diversity is almost exclusively through modern immigration--c.1960s.

The reasons don't matter. I'm just pointing out the way things are.

Mind you, Toronto is pretty ghettoized as well--just look at the Weston Rd/Oakwood area and compare it to Little Portugal for example.

That's not ghetto. Ghetto means 100% or close to 100% population of the same race or ethnicity, occupying a large area, like Chicago's South Side. Only around 20% the Mount Dennis neighourhood is black. Same for the Beechborough neighbourhood. Sorry, that's not even close to being ghetto.

 

[khris]

People have said that Toronto represents more cultures around the world, but Toronto seems to only have a lot of asians and indians.

Indians are Asians.

 

[Cooool]

If you want to get technical, "East Asians" (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc) comprise 11% of Toronto, and South Asians/Middle Easterns comprise 10% of Toronto, and blacks comprise 8%. Meanwhile in San Francisco, Asians comprise 31%, Latin Americans comprise 20% and blacks comprise 8%. I do NOT see how those figures are any less diverse than Toronto's. I think the only difference is there are larger amounts of visible minorities in San Francisco, and they have hispanics instead of South Asians.

And the differences between someone from South Asia is even more trivial than the differences between someone who is Latin American. For example, New York has puerto ricans, mexicans, dominicans, etc all classified as Hispanics. Are you really going to say Toronto is diverse simply because South Asians can be from Pakistan, India, etc? Like I said, San Francisco and New York seem equally as diverse as Toronto, just replace South Asians with Hispanics.

And in my opinion, the reason there is neighbourhood segregation is because of income disparities, not because of racist/prejudice attitudes. Hispanics and African Americans tend to be associated with issues of poverty. Whereas, this is not the case for many asians. It's not like white people never have to see visible minorities. They interact with different groups on a daily basis.

 

[LAz]

Looking at Chicago... almost all those black neighborhoods on the east and south side are for the most part 98% black, if not more. That is not diverse. It's segregation.

 

[Cooool]

Looking at Chicago... almost all those black neighborhoods on the east and south side are for the most part 98% black, if not more. That is not diverse. It's segregation.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with you. Look at Washington DC and Detroit. That is a clear cut example of segregation.

But San Francisco and New York have quite a bit of diversity.

 

[adma]

But San Francisco and New York have quite a bit of diversity.

Well, "sort of" with New York--though it may be uniqueish in how a diversity (or at least a borderline-Toronto tolerance) has infiltrated, or shows signs of infiltrating, the ghetto--Harlem, of course, but also Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, etc.

 

[Chuck]

I believe that Toronto is actually quite segregated, albeit voluntarily, non income based, and inclusive of a vast array of cultures. Much of Markham and Scarborough are over 75% Asian. Much of Brampton is predominantly south asian. 95% of Jewish people live within 3 km of Bathurst. Midtown is mostly white, Woodbridge is primarily Italian. Having said that though, we thankfully do not discriminate in this city, and intermingle perfectly well at work, school, socially, etc.

 

[doady]

I believe that Toronto is actually quite segregated, albeit voluntarily, non income based, and inclusive of a vast array of cultures. Much of Markham and Scarborough are over 75% Asian. Much of Brampton is predominantly south asian. 95% of Jewish people live within 3 km of Bathurst. Midtown is mostly white, Woodbridge is primarily Italian. Having said that though, we thankfully do not discriminate in this city, and intermingle perfectly well at work, school, socially, etc.

According to Toronto neighbourhood profiles, there isn't a single neighbourhood in Scarbrough that over 75% Chinese. The closest is the Milliken neighbourhood at 57%, which is not nearly high enough to be considered segregation, and it certainly does not represent "much of Scarborough." Can anyone provide emprical evidence of segregation and ghettoization in the GTA at all, instead of just anecdotal evidence?

 

[adma]

Can anyone provide emprical evidence of segregation and ghettoization in the GTA at all, instead of just anecdotal evidence?

Does self-segregation count? There's the Ahmaddiya Muslim subdivision in Vaughan, among other things...

 

[Hipster Duck]

According to Toronto neighbourhood profiles, there isn't a single neighbourhood in Scarbrough that over 75% Chinese. The closest is the Milliken neighbourhood at 57%, which is not nearly high enough to be considered segregation, and it certainly does not represent "much of Scarborough." Can anyone provide emprical evidence of segregation and ghettoization in the GTA at all, instead of just anecdotal evidence?

While not Toronto, I recently did an analysis in the Vancouver CMA where I found that the proportion of Chinese living in census tracts that were at least 50% Chinese jumped from 19 to 25%, or a growth of 38%, between the 2001 and 2006 census. The growth rate in people identifying themselves as Chinese only grew by 11% during that same time period.

More astonishingly, the number of S. Asians living in census tracts that were at least 50% S. Asian jumped 82% - while the S. Asian population only grew by 26%.

While there are gaps in the methodology (for example, a census tract could have been 48% Chinese in 2001 and then 54% Chinese in 2006 to tip the scale), it does suggest that a lot of both of these groups are settling in areas that were already close to being predominantly of their group. In other words, there is a growing ghettoization trend in Vancouver and I would not be surprised if this was happening in Toronto, too.