[Ramsayite]

Annoying "extremist" take incoming....

Celebrating "western" culture is just celebrating colonialism and ecosystem destruction in disguise, imo.

If we're going to celebrate this land, let's celebrate the landscapes and prairies that were here for centuries before a bunch ranchers came, enclosed everything privately behind barbed wire fences and destroyed the ecology by planting invasive European grasses for their cows to eat.

Give me textures inspired by prickly pear cactuses, milkweed, fleabane, liatris, blue grama and eroded cretaceous sandstone. If that's what we mean by a western theme then I'm in. If we're talking about barn boards and barbed wire, no thank you.

I know I'm in the the absolute minority on this issue though, and I can tolerate that. The average Albertan gets really excited about a cowboy hat but gives zero shits about native ecology or land connection.

I guess what I'm saying is we've done plenty to celebrate the white part of this map through our stampede design language... Can we start recognizing the green part a bit more? Can we start to change our perspective of what western culture could be based on something deeper than a bunch of cowboy tokenism? Can we actually honor our landscape in a way that goes beyond a 1-minute land acknowledgment or an obligatory tipi sculpture?

I kind of doubt it. I don't think the average Albertan or Calgarian is ready to unpack this issue in any meaningful way. Happy to be the curmudgeon while everybody gleefully celebrates in their cowboy cosplay. To each their own, I guess. Bring on the leather, stirrups, and barn boards.

 

[Ramsayite]

Here's a "decolonial" western mood board:

 

[Roaring Flames]

Annoying "extremist" take incoming....

Celebrating "western" culture is just celebrating colonialism and ecosystem destruction in disguise, imo.

If we're going to celebrate this land, let's celebrate the landscapes and prairies that were here for centuries before a bunch ranchers came, enclosed everything privately behind barbed wire fences and destroyed the ecology by planting invasive European grasses for their cows to eat.

Give me textures inspired by prickly pear cactuses, milkweed, fleabane, liatris, blue grama and eroded cretaceous sandstone. If that's what we mean by a western theme then I'm in. If we're talking about barn boards and barbed wire, no thank you.

I know I'm in the the absolute minority on this issue though, and I can tolerate that. The average Albertan gets really excited about a cowboy hat but gives zero shits about native ecology or land connection.

View attachment 605633

I guess what I'm saying is we've done plenty to celebrate the white part of this map through our stampede design language... Can we start recognizing the green part a bit more? Can we start to change our perspective of what western culture could be based on something deeper than a bunch of cowboy tokenism? Can we actually honor our landscape in a way that goes beyond a 1-minute land acknowledgment or an obligatory tipi sculpture?

I kind of doubt it. I don't think the average Albertan or Calgarian is ready to unpack this issue in any meaningful way. Happy to be the curmudgeon while everybody gleefully celebrates in their cowboy cosplay. To each their own, I guess. Bring on the leather, stirrups, and barn boards.

I think you're getting a bit off topic here. There's nothing barn door and barbed wire, cowboy nonsense in the design of this thing that we're aware of. What we do know is that there is a lot of indigenous features in the design language of this thing. From the tipi circles, to the multi language welcome sign over the sw entrance, to the multitude of local plants planned to go around the arena, and more.

 

[Ramsayite]

I think you're getting a bit off topic here. There's nothing barn door and barbed wire, cowboy

I don't think it's any more off topic than most of what has been discussed here in this thread. There are examples of barn door cowboy design posted and promoted just above, but ok.

From the tipi circles,

Yep that's kind of the token item I critiqued in my post

To the multitude of local plants planned to go around the arena, and more.

Got a species list?

The Elms are a cool heritage trees but they are not native here. They are local in the sense that they were planted here in the last century, brought from eastern Saskatchewan. Worthwhile street tree genetics.

I guess I just have higher standards than the checkbox public realm flourishes that satisfy most. And I acknowledged that in my post.

Feel free to keep talking about whatever the fuck loge boxes are.

 

[Chinook Arch]

Maybe the mods can make a thread about colonialism and such and the discussion can move there?

 

[Ramsayite]

Maybe the mods can make a thread about colonialism and such and the discussion can move there?

While we are at it make a thread on western themes and purge all that shit too

 

[Tothewest]

That's great, thanks for finding that. 23/31 native species is better than most attempts in this city. Now let's see if they end up planted through holes in black plastic under dyed mulch. Overall, it seems like a reasonable attempt and doing some native species landscaping though.

I was talking more about the materiality of indoor elements but happy to bring the conversation to landscaping choices too.

E: math

Thoughts on concrete? plastic? wood? windows? digital signage? Are we allowed any elements that modern civilization has created?

 

[Ramsayite]

Thoughts on concrete? plastic? wood? windows? digital signage? Are we allowed any elements that modern civilization has created?

I think you're misinterpreting my point in a typically reactionary way. I'm not railing against modernity, lol. I'm commenting on thematics. [...]

Certainly the whole thing isn't going to be built out of cowboy hats, leather, barn boards and railway ties either, is it?

Unpack that for yourself. You have no problem talking about a western "mood" without dismissing LED sign boards and plastic but as soon as the underlying cultural pretext for that theme is critiqued, [it becomes an issue].

" Oh no! If it has a western theme we can't refrigerate the ice rink as refrigeration wasn't present in 1920s high river" ... Is how [your rebuttal sounds]

 

[Ramsayite]

This isn't about sticking cows and ag sculptures everywhere, it's about finding areas or textures or clubs or wayfinding or concessions in the arena to tastefully incorporate elements that represent it. ie: Prairie lands, the big sky, wood motifs, wild horses...none of that is bad

Here's you discussing thematic elements without artificially hamstringing available construction materials...

What did you think, the arena was going to be built out of sky and horse bones?

I thought I was expanding on your point and correcting a few misconceptions about what "Prairie Lands" entails. [removed]

Maybe you've never been exposed the idea of that prairies are an ecosystem and not just a field of cows. Feel free to take some time with that.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

What you’re saying is happening. Your point is valid but I think you got a little too intense. We were discussing the type and volume of cliche western themes that should be depicted.

Your passion for the subject is obvious and you do bring up reasons to steer away from “stampede” themes.

Speaking about triggering someone and challenging their beliefs is a bit intense for an events centre forum.

 

[Ramsayite]

Totally fair feedback.

Apologies for being too passionate about a niche idea. Edited for civility

 

[Tothewest]

Here's you discussing thematic elements without artificially hamstringing available construction materials...

What did you think, the arena was going to be built out of sky and horse bones?

I thought I was expanding on your point and correcting a few misconceptions about what "Prairie Lands" entails. [removed]

Maybe you've never been exposed the idea of that prairies are an ecosystem and not just a field of cows. Feel free to take some time with that.

It was a conversation about design motifs for suites/concessions/bars/concourses, how to tastefully capture culture and geography of region...you then went into a diatribe about colonialism and ecosystem destruction.

 

[Ramsayite]

How to tastefully capture culture and geography of region..

Ok but this is exactly my point . The culture and geography of the region very much includes the reality I discussed; The commodification, enclosure, and ecological destruction of prairie landscapes for animal agriculture Is inextricably connected to the vernacular of western "design motifs" which you reference.

diatribe about colonialism and ecosystem destruction.

I'll assume you are not actually confused about how colonial land history and ecology are connected to "culture and geography" in this province. Rather, you just think it is not "tasteful" to highlight these matters. Like many Albertans / Canadians, I'm sure you see these western motifs as neutral and harmless little flourishes that exist in a vacuum, and it feels unsettling to consider otherwise. Sorry to be the bearer of complexity.


Clearly "tastefully capture" means something much more superficial to you, I digress.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make, in an events centre thread, is? If you're trying to make people think about colonialism and its affect on the land, you've accomplished that.

Like indigenous culture never should have been wiped away, we also can't wipe away everything that resulted out of colonialism (a city of 2 Million was built and an events centre for that city's hockey team is being built).

It is all our history and thus our culture. The indigenous people farmed the land and used what they grew and farmed to trade amongst themselves. Then a white person was given a plot of that land to farm, they put up fences, planted new flora, and the landscape was altered. They built towns, then cities and we continue to remove farmland in favor of growth, we planted new flora, and the landscape has been altered again and again as these things happen.

If you want us to reconcile this against championing for a cliche western aesthetic in the events centre, personally, you have gotten me to do that.

Also I believe the "tastefully capture" they're referring to is referencing me pointing to 90's West Edmonton Mall going full Disneyland with their representations of a French boulevard and Bourbon Street.

 

[Mountain Man]

So I'm going to play devils advocate for a minute. I'd love for someone to give me a rational explanation of what decolonization really means. I think most of what people want is a civil rights issue, but how do we de-colonize Canada? Not standing in people's way is an obvious start, but what action are people specifically looking for? I see "decolonization" as another version of populism, it sounds great and people love to cheer for it, but few can really explain how it will actually work.