[OttoSchloss]

Sorry but anytime I read "hijacked by socialists" I automatically assume the author means: old, white, protestant, heterosexual men are no longer completely in charge and I hate it!

The fact is, nothing has been hijacked. The city has matured beyond a single industry with a single dominant cultural group, as has the world. There's a diversity of opinion and no one necessarily always agrees with their neighbor, but what it comes down to is, a large portion of gays, women, visible minorities and enlightened white guys don't think the old power structures represent them and so they vote for the people they think do. It's not a hijacking, it's democracy.

A hijacking of government is when a party that barely scraped by with under 30% of the popular vote operates like it has some sort of mandate from the people to do as it pleases and the parties that people actually voted for stand by and watch like ball-less wonders.

 

[nfitz]

Sorry but anytime I read "hijacked by socialists" I automatically assume the author means: old, white, protestant, heterosexual men are no longer completely in charge and I hate it!

I can think of more Catholic socialists than Protestants. And a lot who are not contracted to any of the gods.

 

[Fresh Start]

Sorry but anytime I read "hijacked by socialists" I automatically assume the author means: old, white, protestant, heterosexual men are no longer completely in charge and I hate it!

Then you really need to open your horizons as this young, mixed race, atheistic, homosexual man is telling you. These are all labels being thrusted upon society by none other than socialist elites whom seek to instigate and stir up divisions and distrust amongst various groups of people, such that we can no longer see reality for what it really is: ageless, raceless, genderless; only a bifurcation of Us vs. Them.

The fact is, nothing has been hijacked. The city has matured beyond a single industry with a single dominant cultural group, as has the world. There's a diversity of opinion and no one necessarily always agrees with their neighbor, but what it comes down to is, a large portion of gays, women, visible minorities and enlightened white guys don't think the old power structures represent them and so they vote for the people they think do. It's not a hijacking, it's democracy.

There’s such a thing as excessive democracy or the tyranny of the majority. Everything you’ve said here can easy well also apply to any constituents fed up with the old power structures of the past eight years. To many, David Miller is considered our version of George W. Bush. Interesting that we have now heard Pantalone, Mihevc and Rae all say the same thing concerning MIller. He has failed to communicate both with the public and his own allies. Put a different way by those who never supported him, he has been a manipulative con man and the truth has finally caught up with him.

A hijacking of government is when a party that barely scraped by with under 30% of the popular vote operates like it has some sort of mandate from the people to do as it pleases and the parties that people actually voted for stand by and watch like ball-less wonders.

And now you’re sounding like a complete hypocrite. So it’s democracy to keep incompetent City Councillors around who answer primarily to labour unions like CAW and narrow interest advocacy groups meanwhile the general public eats cake; but when a majority of votes casted in our last federal election were for the Conservatives (38% vs. 26% for Liberals and 18% for the NDP) suddenly it’s a hijacking of government? Popular vote opinion polls mean nothing, think of the Bradley Effect. It’s what people do on Election Day that matters.

 

[Fresh Start]

Have you read this Fraser institute report you cite? I'm looking at it right now, and is showing that the tax burden as a percentage of income peaked in the 1980s, and has been on a downward trend for the past decade.

Why are you trying to deceive us?

The RBC Housing Affordability measure has been compiled since 1985. The higher the reading, the more costly it is to afford a home. For example, an affordability reading of 50 per cent means that home ownership costs, including mortgage payments, utilities and property taxes, take up 50 per cent of a typical household’s monthly pre-tax income. Last I checked we pay nearly 50% of our income to taxes here in Toronto, when is the official tax free day in Canada, we haven't hit it yet. So that leaves approximately 1.3% of income to pay for transportation, clothing, food, etc. Average family household income in this city is $75,829 as reported by Stats Can. At best that leaves families with $986 per month. Good thing I have no extra debt and own my vehicles outright. How is the average person doing this? Could be the reason why Canadian household debt is at a record high of 146% of income. Even with artificially low interest rates, housing does not work at 5 times income.

Food and clothing have become much cheaper over the years, thanks to globalization, chinese textile factories, new technology, and farm subsidies in exporting nations.

Why are you trying to deceive us?

1895-1989: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ150e-eng.htm
2005-2009: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ150a-eng.htm
2009-April 2010: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/cpis01g-eng.htm

The CPI has ballooned while salary rates drag their heels. Globalization takes more than it gives.

There has been PLENTY of discussion this election on infrastructure, city services, and transit. Where have you been?

Okay I’ll give you this one, though one would nary notice with all the theatrics going on surrounding this campaign.

Yes school shootings would make a great topic during an election. At one podium we will have the candidate who is against school shootings, and at the other the candidate who is in favour of school shootings. I can assure you that bike lanes and homelessness affect the city more than do school shootings.

Why are you trying to deceive us?

We look good in contrast to American cities and to Saskatchewan. But both Vancouver and Montreal have lower homicide rates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto

 

[Hipster Duck]

These are all labels being thrusted upon society by none other than socialist elites

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[kettal]

Why are you trying to deceive us?

The RBC Housing Affordability measure has been compiled since 1985. The higher the reading, the more costly it is to afford a home. For example, an affordability reading of 50 per cent means that home ownership costs, including mortgage payments, utilities and property taxes, take up 50 per cent of a typical household’s monthly pre-tax income. Last I checked we pay nearly 50% of our income to taxes here in Toronto, when is the official tax free day in Canada, we haven't hit it yet. So that leaves approximately 1.3% of income to pay for transportation, clothing, food, etc. Average family household income in this city is $75,829 as reported by Stats Can. At best that leaves families with $986 per month. Good thing I have no extra debt and own my vehicles outright. How is the average person doing this? Could be the reason why Canadian household debt is at a record high of 146% of income. Even with artificially low interest rates, housing does not work at 5 times income.

I don't know who is paying 50% income taxes? In Ontario you'd have to be earning at least $1 million before your average income tax rate even gets to 45%.

http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax

The housing market works in cycles. You can find better sale price, lease agreements, or mortgage terms depending on the time in the cycle you purchase. Right now the cycle is at a high point.

Why are you trying to deceive us?

1895-1989: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ150e-eng.htm
2005-2009: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ150a-eng.htm
2009-April 2010: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/cpis01g-eng.htm

The CPI has ballooned while salary rates drag their heels. Globalization takes more than it gives.

I'm actually starting to lose my patience with you.

You were so quick to quote the Fraser Institute report, yet when I tell you EXACTLY what is said IN THAT report, apparantley I'm trying to fucking "decieve" us.

Since you are too lazy to look for yourself, here is a graph which IS IN THE REPORT you were so quick to cite.

See that green line? It represents basic needs. See how it goes DOWN RELATIVE TO INCOME OVER THE YEARS?

I can't believe I actually have to do this. You are capable of finding this shit yourself, before you start quoting the very report it comes from.

And before you say it, the blue line which is at about 40% currently does not show income tax, it shows all tax revenue per capita the gov't collects, inclusive of corporate taxes, business taxes, CPP, EI, GST, and so on.

Why are you trying to deceive us?

We look good in contrast to American cities and to Saskatchewan. But both Vancouver and Montreal have lower homicide rates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto

woop de doo, I never claimed we had a lower homicide rate than Vancouver. I said MORE OF US are affected in our daily lives by homelessness and bike lanes than we are by school shootings. Heck, why don't we extend that to all shootings. It's still true.

 

[Fresh Start]

Look, if you're going to just twist my arguments around in an attempt to discredit me and make me look foolish, tell me now so I won't have to waste either of our times. I never said that 50% goes to income taxes, but into a variety of taxes and fees including GST and PST on every item purchased or service provided. The other near 50% going into the direct sales price per item or per transaction. And obviously narrowing in on school shootings was just for the shock value. I obviously was speaking more of Toronto's crime rate in general, which for a large city it is still higher than desirable given the % of the budget that goes towards policing.

Here, read this article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/the-little-matter-of-affordability/article1590722/

Doesn’t sound too bad, right? Now take a look at RBC’s numbers. The bank says anyone owning a detached bungalow in the Toronto area can expect to see 49.1 per cent of their pre-tax income go towards home-ownership costs such as mortgage payments, property taxes and utilities.

The report continues: “With escalating prices, affordability measures are now above the long-term average. This suggests that additional increases in housing costs may price more and more buyers out of the market.”

and...

It is not inconceivable that a one-bedroom-and-den downtown apartment may command $2,000 a month in five years time and a two-bedroom north of $3,000. Nor is it inconceivable to expect total housing expenses to eat up well over 60 per cent of your monthly take-home pay if you want to live in a great central location in the GTA within that five-year time frame.

It's just plain fact, I don't need academic studies to tell me the CPI inflates the cost of essential consumer goods out of the price bracket of many Torontonians. One's $10 bill could stretch to buy a lot more items back in the '80s or even five years ago. After your taxes, rent or mortages and utilities; only half your total monthly earnings are left to juggle everything else. Not too bad if you're single, but raising a family, forget about it. And that also means no nest egg investments for a rainy day.

2008 Average expenditure per household

Concept Amount ($)

• Personal taxes 19,365
• Shelter 18,901
• Transportation 10,229
• Food 8,132
• Personal insurance payments and pension contributions 4,254
• Recreation 4,141
• Household operation 3,892
• Health care 2,115
• Education 2,009
• Tobacco products and alcoholic beverages 1,537

Source: StatCan 2009 http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil10d-eng.htm

That totals $74,575. And like I said in the previous post, a Toronto family's median income for the year is only $75,829. So in sum, Torontonians are barely scraping together enough to make ends meet, and that's only in optimal circumstances.

 

[kettal]

Look, if you're going to just twist my arguments around in an attempt to discredit me and make me look foolish, tell me now so I won't have to waste either of our times. I never said that 50% goes to income taxes, but into a variety of taxes and fees including GST and PST on every item purchased or service provided. The other near 50% going into the direct sales price per item or per transaction. And obviously narrowing in on school shootings was just for the shock value. I obviously was speaking more of Toronto's crime rate in general, which for a large city it is still higher than desirable given the % of the budget that goes towards policing.

if that's the case, you are counting taxes twice. The RBC numbers include taxes, so you either have to subtract from your 50% tax burden, or remove all taxes on the RBC numbers.

It's just plain fact, I don't need academic studies to tell me the CPI inflates the cost of essential consumer goods out of the price bracket of many Torontonians. One's $10 bill could stretch to buy a lot more items back in the '80s or even five years ago. After your taxes, rent or mortages and utilities; only half your total monthly earnings are left to juggle everything else. Not too bad if you're single, but raising a family, forget about it. And that also means no nest egg investments for a rainy day.

Do you think you're the first person to ever discover inflation? It's a fact of life, but average income in Canada has consistently outpaced inflation rate. Since 2004, inflation has increased prices by about 7%. Guess how much minimum wage has gone up in the same time frame? 40%.

2008 Average expenditure per household

Concept Amount ($)

• Personal taxes 19,365
• Shelter 18,901
• Transportation 10,229
• Food 8,132
• Personal insurance payments and pension contributions 4,254
• Recreation 4,141
• Household operation 3,892
• Health care 2,115
• Education 2,009
• Tobacco products and alcoholic beverages 1,537

Source: StatCan 2009 http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil10d-eng.htm

That totals $74,575. And like I said in the previous post, a Toronto family's median income for the year is only $75,829. So in sum, Torontonians are barely scraping together enough to make ends meet, and that's only in optimal circumstances.

That list clearly includes descretionary expenses... unless you consider thousands spent on tobacco & alcohol to be part of "making ends meet".

Besides, these are averages, not minimums. If I'm a millionaire and I drive a Bentley and fill it up with premium gas, guess what? The average expenditure in this list for Transport goes up, even if the cost of basic transport for the working class family stays the same. Same deal if Joe Millionaire sends his kids to UCC, that throws up the number for Education in this list. Doesn't make public school any more expensive.

 

[slickpete83]

Complaining: Toronto's official sport? just like hockey , to bad will never make the Complaining finals hahhahaha.....

 

[Paleo]

I find it hard to take someone seriously when much of each post is filled with endless talking points.

 

[nfitz]

Look, if you're going to just twist my arguments around in an attempt to discredit me and make me look foolish ...

Surely simply pointing out your ludicrous claims about increasing taxation and higher costs are wrong isn't twisting your arguments. It's merely discrediting you.

 

[Thanos]

"We look good in contrast to American cities and to Saskatchewan. But both Vancouver and Montreal have lower homicide rates"
Toronto has a lower overall crime rate than Vancouver or Montreal do.

"One's $10 bill could stretch to buy a lot more items back in the '80s or even five years ago. "
Do you expect us to take you seriously after such a comment?

 

[kettal]

The really scary thing is the number of Fresh Starts out there in the electorate... who have calculated that the world is coming to an end, but they are incapable of understanding basic arithmetic.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Look, I want you to understand that I am passionate about and love this city dearly but I also think it is a crime-ridden hellhole with a dark-red socialist history, a dead economy and very little hope for any future beyond inevitably sinking into the lake.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, I don't know about whether city has gotten hijacked by Socialists, but I do know that this and other threads has been hijacked by Fresh Start. Just saying.

And yes, rising house prices are definitely the result of socialistic greed.

And like I said in the previous post, a Toronto family's median income for the year is only $75,829. So in sum, Torontonians are barely scraping together enough to make ends meet, and that's only in optimal circumstances.

Oh and nice try presenting the data as Toronto-specific...thankfully, it isn't that hard to get a pan-Canadian picture:

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil16a-eng.htm

Hardly Toronto-specific.

AoD