[taal]

So I've been thinking about condo townhomes lately.

Now, let me clarify - I'm referring to condo townhomes which are part of a condo building i.e. not standalone townhomes.

It seems to me the condo fees really kill you here, why? Let's say one is looking for a large condo townhome - say around 1500 square feet.

In buildings, particularly with pools, or even a few amenities, the average condo fees can easily be 60 cents per square foot, So;

Small 2 bedroom (770 sqr feet) = $462
Large townhome in same complex (1600) = $960

^^ Now in this example, the condo fee includes everything less electricty, typical now a days. One thing people get confused about here, this means that your AC is typically included in your condo fee ... so this is a big saving.

Anyway, granted the larger townhome will use a little more water, but probably not much.

Now, in townhome only condo developments, the condo fees are typically 20-30 cents only.

So now I'm left wondering, why would I ever by a townhome in a condo development (that's not seperate i.e. with it's own condo board).

Thoughts?

 

[BobBob]

Do you have any real-world examples of this? I would think that fees should always be organized in a way that justly divides common expenses. Perhaps in the cases you are referring to, the townhouse dwellers get access to more common amenities in the main building, underground garage, etc, and therefore incur higher fees.

BTW, I believe the word is "townhouse", "townhome" being a warmer-sounding euphemism concocted for marketing purposes. Just sayin...

 

[taal]

Townhouse it is

The example I gave above was based on real #'s - I just rounded a bit.

Right, I agree, condo townhouses that are part of a building typically have access to a gym and maybe swimming pool. But, for $900+ a month, I'm not sure how anyone can justify it.

I'm not sure why I limited it condo townhouses - I just mean, any very large apartment.
I guess my main argument is simple:

The expenses associated with condo fees are NOT directly proportional to the condo size at a linear rate.
I really think larger units should get a discount overall i.e. they shouldn't pay the same per square footage rate as smaller units.
This must be a huge detractor from buying very large units (be it, apartments or townhouses).
The exception being townhouse only developments, but in those cases the amenities usually equate to underground parking and a garden. But at the very least your not shelling out $$$ for the amenities.

Maybe condo fees should be proportional to the # of residents, not the size of the unit ... I think this is a fair way.

 

[lead82]

It would be difficult to levy a per person rate. What if a unit has 2 people to start, then a kid is born. Does the fee jump 50%? What if someone moves out, dies-

 

[Monaco]

I agree with you. Look at 1/1+1 bedrooms: can be anywhere from 450-800 sqft, but the same number of people usually live in both.

I can see how this could be another hurdle for larger, "family-friendly" 3 bdrm condo units.

 

[taal]

Well we just need to look at the comparable costs:

Anyone care to gather what the following would be for a 1500 square feet town home (given maybe 2 adults and one kid or two):
Water costs:
Electricity costs: <<< THIS DOES NOT MATTER
Electricity costs for air conditioning
Gas costs (probably only if there's a gas stove):

We ignore the general electricity costs because most condo fees do not include that.

So the question is, how much do the rest amount to - is it close to 1000 ?
btw, I'm not comparing it to a house but rather a townhouse only community which generally has much lower condo fees - probably 300-400 a month for that size unit. I don't think the above expenses would amount anywhere close to 500 dollars.

 

[UserNameToronto]

We looked at these arrangements (a bit).

Given you can still buy freehold townhouses/rowhouses for $400K close to downtown (Corktown/Riverside), and that $960/mo buys a lot of maintenance and extra mortgage, I'm not sure what is so compelling about condo towns.

 

[UserNameToronto]

.

Well we just need to look at the comparable costs:

Anyone care to gather what the following would be for a 1500 square feet town home (given maybe 2 adults and one kid or two):

Water costs: $360/year
Electricity costs for air conditioning $30/month for 4 months
Gas costs (probably only if there's a gas stove): $90/month including furnace, stove, water heater

This is a 1400sqft semi with 3 adults.

 

[taal]

Thanks a lot for that information!

That seems very reasonable, making me almost gag at the possibility of paying 900+ a month for a similar size condo townhouse <- and this doesn't even include the electricity charges (less air conditioning).

All for what? a pool / a exercise room ?

An underground parking lot + snow removal / gardening all the works can be attained in townhouse only complexes for 200-300 dollars a month ... on top of the fees you listed.

Still less then 900+

 

[cdr108]

i find if condo TH are charged the same maintenance fee rate as condo apt in the complex, they don't get much value for their money.
sometimes their rate is cheaper, but not always.

also the wasted SF from hallways/stairs really add up in the maintenance fees with multi-storey THs typical of new developments.

IMO you're better off with freehold TH, semi's etc ...