[lenaitch]

And passenger ships can be the focal point of regeneration and city building. Look at Kingston which used the SS Keewatin and Thousand Islands ships to anchor a new maritime museum on the waterfront. A maritime museum in The Portlands would be great! The Hearn?!

They can be part of package but they can't do it alone. Sault Ste. Marie just sent Norgoma to the breaker, the original home of Keewatin couldn't make it work (and Kingston only just got it so it's impact as an addition to their Great Lakes Museum can't yet be determined).

 

[mburrrrr]

Some older pictures which I probably posted in other threads.
The Keewatin’s final voyage on its way to Kingston Oct 25, 2023

Oct 9 2024 Viking Octantis

Oct 4, 2024

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's too bad the Unwin railway connection has been taken out. It would have been a fun tourist train from the Terminal straight up to Parry Sound and cottage country for the day.

On two of my cruises the ship docked right up against a passenger rail station. Once in Skagway, Alaska to take the Yukon Express, and another cruise in 2022 from Warnemünde, German with train to Berlin, shown below, albeit dated from 2007. But Imagine Toronto's cruise terminal with a similar passenger rail connection.

 

[tripwire]

The Viking Octantis seems like an awesome ship. Too bad it's so expensive.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Viking Octantis seems like an awesome ship. Too bad it's so expensive.

I look a Viking cruise in 2022 to Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Poland and Germany. It was amazing. No kids, no casinos, no fancy dressup dinners, no artshows or photographers chasing you around, no separate charges to eat at specialty restaurants, free alcohol. It was marvelous. Due to Covid we got a deal, was about $12k for the two of us including flights. I highly recommend Viking, but you'll never be able to slum it on Royal Caribbean again. Princess I can do.

 

[afransen]

The Viking Octantis seems like an awesome ship. Too bad it's so expensive.

I always have strange feelings about these types of luxury experiences. It seems like they are inherently built on a backs of an exploited underclass of servants. 'Triangle of Sadness' vibes.

 

[crs1026]

I always have strange feelings about these types of luxury experiences. It seems like they are inherently built on a backs of an exploited underclass of servants. 'Triangle of Sadness' vibes.

Do Great Lakes cruise ships have the same labour restrictions that the freight ships, er, boats have? ie While "salties" can be crewed by just about anyone, the lake boats that never leave the Great Lakes/St Lawrence must carry local crews and they work under North American labour agreements.

I too have had mixed feelings after taking cruises down south and to Alaska.... on the one hand, the labour works pretty hard.... but on the other hand, having seen the tipping they have access to...... I would need to know a lot more about the wages and earnings relative to the labour market in their home countries before feeling that the crew are being exploited. It seems like pretty secure and safe employment, especially compared to working on a freight vessel. Definitely a situation where one might have to acknowledge globalisation and labour standards elsewhere.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

IIRC the great lake cruisers do leave the lakes every winter. Viking Octantis is registered in Norway.

IIRC most cruise ships pay staff fairly decently, even by western standards. It takes a premium to get staff to spend months on a ship far away from home with few breaks.

 

[lenaitch]

Do Great Lakes cruise ships have the same labour restrictions that the freight ships, er, boats have? ie While "salties" can be crewed by just about anyone, the lake boats that never leave the Great Lakes/St Lawrence must carry local crews and they work under North American labour agreements.

I too have had mixed feelings after taking cruises down south and to Alaska.... on the one hand, the labour works pretty hard.... but on the other hand, having seen the tipping they have access to...... I would need to know a lot more about the wages and earnings relative to the labour market in their home countries before feeling that the crew are being exploited. It seems like pretty secure and safe employment, especially compared to working on a freight vessel. Definitely a situation where one might have to acknowledge globalisation and labour standards elsewhere.

- Paul

I suspect it is fairly complicated Paul. I'm not up on maritime or labour law, but suspect that the rules for a foreign flagged vessel are the same whether the vessel is carrying passengers or gumballs. If it is a Canadian registered vessel then federal labour law would apply. Ship movements, ports of call, etc. are governed by the US 'Jones Act' and our similar Coastal Trading Act.

Both crews and passengers have to go through the same border clearances that everybody else does; although manifests are filed beforehand and I believe for Great Lakes commercial shipping there is pre-cleared crew manifest.

 

[rdaner]

I put the following article about Ford’s plans for Niagara Falls. Part of the vision is to expand the cruise ship facilities in Port Colbourne and introduce them in Fort Erie. Though not mentioned is the need for renovated/expanded Toronto facilities which could include a whole new neighbourhood as is being done in other cities.

Ontario’s vision of Niagara as northern Las Vegas may not include Marineland, Tourism Minister says

Ontario Tourism Minister Stan Cho says the province is ‘not currently in discussions with any of the private matters going around the sale’ of Marineland, which is located a short distance from Horseshoe Falls

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[lenaitch]

I put the following article about Ford’s plans for Niagara Falls. Part of the vision is to expand the cruise ship facilities in Port Colbourne and introduce them in Fort Erie. Though not mentioned is the need for renovated/expanded Toronto facilities which could include a whole new neighbourhood as is being done in other cities.

Ontario’s vision of Niagara as northern Las Vegas may not include Marineland, Tourism Minister says

Ontario Tourism Minister Stan Cho says the province is ‘not currently in discussions with any of the private matters going around the sale’ of Marineland, which is located a short distance from Horseshoe Falls

www.theglobeandmail.com

I'm surprised they don't propose to auger out dock facilities in the Welland Canal itself. I mean, it's like right there - only 10 kilks as the poker chip flies from Fallsview.

 

[afransen]

I'm surprised they don't propose to auger out dock facilities in the Welland Canal itself. I mean, it's like right there - only 10 kilks as the poker chip flies from Fallsview.

There are plans in Port Colborne to build a cruise ship terminal that would also act as a market hall. It would be on the west side of the canal. They recently cleared some property in the area, though the site would likely need some environmental remediation. I hear from family that the city is discussing this. The concern is a small town paying for this kind of infrastructure just for tour buses to whisk people off to Niagara Falls instead of patronizing local businesses.

42°52'49.4"N 79°14'58.6"W

maps.app.goo.gl

Cruise Ships and Waterfront Revitalization

www.portcolborne.ca

 

[nfitz]

Toronto probably doesn't get enough to justify that; and surely will have more ships that Port Co.... whatever it's called. I thought Colborne was east of Cobourg - I'm just realizing now it's two different places.

Though looking at the website, the passenger side of it seems a pittance, and the large sums of money are for freight. So perhaps more marketing than anything else.

 

[rdaner]

I put this together as a really rough reel to show colleagues. Any feedback is welcome!

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