News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 9.3K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 40K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 5.3K     0 

There’s going to be discomfort. No doubt about it. But there was going to be discomfort anyways - and that seems to be ignored in these conversations by those arguing for the status quo. As Toronto grows and we intensify along Avenues and main streets, traffic will be unbearable if we keep the same road configuration and auto mode share. We need to start introducing options, and that includes far more frequent and expansive transit, more localized neighborhoods that encourage walking, and, yes - bike lanes.

I’d be ok with “building things when the demand exists”, but we bundle bike lanes with road reconstruction to reduce construction and cost impacts. You yourself have gone on tirades about how much money the city wasted by tearing the same piece of road up repeatedly. This is us trying to avoid that.
 
I’ll also simply express that in my ‘ideal’ Toronto, the vast majority of ‘short’ and daily-life trips (handwaving wildly) would take place using walking and biking, medium distance trips with transit and biking, and long distance trips with transit and cars.

I think cars and trucks are a valuable part of our lifestyle; they’re great conveniences and are necessary for a city to function. But we can’t build a beautiful, people-oriented, dense city around prioritizing their movement everywhere for every trip of every length. So, we should be doing as much as possible to make it possible for people to live their lives in a car-adjacent way, not a car-centric way. It will be tough, and it will be a long haul.
 
It’s worthwhile to evaluate what we can do to get car traffic to flow smoother. Some ideas have been mentioned previously: removing stop lights, synchronizing lights, reconfiguring lanes etc. In other words, changes that can be made without ripping out bike lanes. It sounds like the city is considering some of this, while on others (traffic lights) we’re going in the wrong direction.
Something that struck me on a recent trip to Melbourne - a city so similar to Toronto it's almost creepy - was the difference in stop light numbers. Rough estimate, but on a street of similar scale to Queen or College they've got about 50% less. You can debate the merits, but one thing it does is allow the streetcars (trams) to really fly between stops, which are also spaced somewhat further apart than in TO.
 
Something that struck me on a recent trip to Melbourne - a city so similar to Toronto it's almost creepy - was the difference in stop light numbers.
I’ve never been to Melbourne - hope to, someday - but @reaperexpress has repeatedly pointed out how ridiculous our use of stop lights is, and how much it impacts car traffic, with questionable safety benefits. The tradeoff is just poor, and often political.

The same goes for our placement of transit stops, which @Northern Light has spoken about to length. Improving these are concrete things we can do to make car drivers and transit users have better experiences without reconfiguring roads.
 
Yeah our winters are so overblown. I average less than 5 days a year where I don't bike due to snow. We barely get any snow here. I think a lot of people who live to the away from the waterfront don't realize how little snow we actually get downtown. I miss more days due to rain than I do due to cold or snow.
And those days when there is too much snow, the roads are in such a bad shape that cars and surface transit are no better until sufficient snow clearing has been done.
 
Snow isn't the issue imo it's comfort.
Wear a jacket and gloves. Wear glasses for the cold wind.

When I used to have a car I used to need to scrape the ice after parking it outside. My hands would freeze while I brushed the snow off the hood/roof and scraped the glass. That process added 5-10min to my 'comfort' of driving.

Now, I just use bikeshare in winter. Less snow to clean. I just wear appropriate winter clothing for cycling. (gloves with heat pads and a breathable, not too warm, jacket) Comfort achieved.
 
I think part of the problem with winter/rain cycling is that North America has a silly obsession with mountain and road bikes that go fast, and forego practical measures like fenders, chain guards, bike racks, paniers, etc. Riding in inclement weather conditions requires being a bit better prepared from a gear standpoint. Of course, rampant theft also makes it harder to be able to leave a bike with any pricey accessories on it in public.
 
Wear a jacket and gloves. Wear glasses for the cold wind.

When I used to have a car I used to need to scrape the ice after parking it outside. My hands would freeze while I brushed the snow off the hood/roof and scraped the glass. That process added 5-10min to my 'comfort' of driving.

Now, I just use bikeshare in winter. Less snow to clean. I just wear appropriate winter clothing for cycling. (gloves with heat pads and a breathable, not too warm, jacket) Comfort achieved.
For me it wasn’t the cold so much as it was my core would always be uncomfortably warm, though getting splashed with saltwater in puddles sucked.

Personally I park indoors now but when I didn’t if I made sure to rain-x my car it was maybe 20 seconds? Either way you’re not trying to convince me, it’s everyone else in their cars that’s the target
 
I'm not about to defend Turban Planner, and am as pro-cycling as they come pretty much; but I do think the rah rah for everyone can do it and in all weather and at all times of year is just too over the top.

Many people aren't in the physical shape required...........they'd be exhausted/sore and maybe risking a heart attack by the 10th block (1.5km) never mind their typical commutes, which for many are 20km ++

Additionally, many people don't own and can't afford top notch winter gear, there are a lot of working class folks who struggle to get generic winter jacket number 2 from Walmart and a pair of mittens or gloves, the idea that everyone can afford their hyper-insulated, breathable, sweat-wicking, stain-resistant, rip-stop gear along with a good bike is just disconnected from reality.

That's before considering the theft issue noted above, and even lack of covered, never mind secure bike storage at one's workplace (or residential) destination.

Most apartments in Toronto lack ground floor or in-garage bicycle storage. You have to haul a bike into an elevator, then pop it up on end, making a mess of the cab and driving the management nuts, while occupying almost the entire elevator and inconveniencing your fellow tenants.

Trying do that twice a day (or 4x if you have extra errands to run) and some of you will give up biking.........

There's also the matter of having showers and a change of clothes when you get to work.

You know most workplaces don't offer this, right?

*******

Now, let's be clear, I'm pro cycling as much as ever and don't like tired trope arguments against it. But I don't think those are countered by statements that have every bit as much slant/spin and are equally off the mark.

The object is not to get everyone to bike, there is no believable scenario for this in most of the GTA and there won't be in 10 years either. The objective is:

a) Make it much safer and more pleasant for existing riders

b) Raise the modal split for cycling substantially, in areas of high cycling from 10/15% to 25% or more; in areas of low cycling ~2%, the realistic object is to get that to ~10% over a few years and 15% within 15 years.

c) Getting even that done requires a lot of heavy lifting:

-We need retrofits to existing work places, with government leading by example, offering secure, indoor, bike parking and showers at most workplaces.

- We need a vastly expanded Bikeshare system. Just to cover the City proper will require ~1,400 bikes or so, but if you think of near universal uptake, and most bikes going one way per peak-hour, that's only 1,400 commuters using bikes. Making a larger difference means thinking about a system the size of Paris, Velib for the GTA, - 19,000 bikes, with roughly 6,000 of those in the City proper.

- It means free Canbike level one for every school child and every adult who wants to learn to ride.,

- It means mandating landlords to provide secure, ground-floor bike storage, wherever possible (displacing surfacing parking/carports)

- The government should lead by providing this at major TCHC projects.

- It also means snowmelt systems around catch basins/road drains to reduce the liklihood of ice buildup when roads are reconstructed.

- Don't forget a need for more year-round public washrooms, as not everyone can hold it for another 2km until they pass an open fast food place or such.

****

Lets rightly defend the installation of these lanes, while seeing if we can't reduce some of their worst impacts.

But lets also champion the above...........and while we're getting 'the carrot' right..........we need 'the stick' too, of highway tolls and of higher permit parking rates that reflect fair market value.
 
Sorry, I should’ve said six times A small number is still a small number, it’s just funny if anybody in Scarborough for a Subway the usage is too low, but a few dozen bikes is worth cutting road capacity in half
Are you trolling?

I don't think a thread discussing the increasing cycling infrastructure is the place to go all woke about the impact on car drivers.

Edit - good grief - a dozen more posts since the one I replied to. We get it - you don't like bike lanes. Why mention it more than once a year or something? Move on!
 
Additionally, many people don't own and can't afford top notch winter gear, there are a lot of working class folks who struggle to get generic winter jacket number 2 from Walmart and a pair of mittens or gloves, the idea that everyone can afford their hyper-insulated, breathable, sweat-wicking, stain-resistant, rip-stop gear along with a good bike is just disconnected from reality.

The folks that struggle to afford a winter coat don't, by and large, own cars. They would mainly be taking transit.

And even in the Netherlands, most commuting trips are done by car (65%), it's more about substituting short local trips done by car with walking and cycling.


Most apartments in Toronto lack ground floor or in-garage bicycle storage. You have to haul a bike into an elevator, then pop it up on end, making a mess of the cab and driving the management nuts, while occupying almost the entire elevator and inconveniencing your fellow tenants.

Trying do that twice a day (or 4x if you have extra errands to run) and some of you will give up biking.........
Bikeshare could do a lot to help manage the lack of bike storage infrastructure in apartments and workplaces. Also helps a lot with maintenance and theft concerns. And they have fenders!
 
I'm not about to defend Turban Planner, and am as pro-cycling as they come pretty much; but I do think the rah rah for everyone can do it and in all weather and at all times of year is just too over the top.

Many people aren't in the physical shape required...........they'd be exhausted/sore and maybe risking a heart attack by the 10th block (1.5km) never mind their typical commutes, which for many are 20km ++

Additionally, many people don't own and can't afford top notch winter gear, there are a lot of working class folks who struggle to get generic winter jacket number 2 from Walmart and a pair of mittens or gloves, the idea that everyone can afford their hyper-insulated, breathable, sweat-wicking, stain-resistant, rip-stop gear along with a good bike is just disconnected from reality.

That's before considering the theft issue noted above, and even lack of covered, never mind secure bike storage at one's workplace (or residential) destination.

Most apartments in Toronto lack ground floor or in-garage bicycle storage. You have to haul a bike into an elevator, then pop it up on end, making a mess of the cab and driving the management nuts, while occupying almost the entire elevator and inconveniencing your fellow tenants.

Trying do that twice a day (or 4x if you have extra errands to run) and some of you will give up biking.........

There's also the matter of having showers and a change of clothes when you get to work.

You know most workplaces don't offer this, right?

*******

Now, let's be clear, I'm pro cycling as much as ever and don't like tired trope arguments against it. But I don't think those are countered by statements that have every bit as much slant/spin and are equally off the mark.

The object is not to get everyone to bike, there is no believable scenario for this in most of the GTA and there won't be in 10 years either. The objective is:

a) Make it much safer and more pleasant for existing riders

b) Raise the modal split for cycling substantially, in areas of high cycling from 10/15% to 25% or more; in areas of low cycling ~2%, the realistic object is to get that to ~10% over a few years and 15% within 15 years.

c) Getting even that done requires a lot of heavy lifting:

-We need retrofits to existing work places, with government leading by example, offering secure, indoor, bike parking and showers at most workplaces.

- We need a vastly expanded Bikeshare system. Just to cover the City proper will require ~1,400 bikes or so, but if you think of near universal uptake, and most bikes going one way per peak-hour, that's only 1,400 commuters using bikes. Making a larger difference means thinking about a system the size of Paris, Velib for the GTA, - 19,000 bikes, with roughly 6,000 of those in the City proper.

- It means free Canbike level one for every school child and every adult who wants to learn to ride.,

- It means mandating landlords to provide secure, ground-floor bike storage, wherever possible (displacing surfacing parking/carports)

- The government should lead by providing this at major TCHC projects.

- It also means snowmelt systems around catch basins/road drains to reduce the liklihood of ice buildup when roads are reconstructed.

- Don't forget a need for more year-round public washrooms, as not everyone can hold it for another 2km until they pass an open fast food place or such.

****

Lets rightly defend the installation of these lanes, while seeing if we can't reduce some of their worst impacts.

But lets also champion the above...........and while we're getting 'the carrot' right..........we need 'the stick' too, of highway tolls and of higher permit parking rates that reflect fair market value.
Sort of related to your first points. I've gone to St Jamestown daily this week and something that surprised me was the number of multi seat electric bikes. There seems to be a much higher density of these vehicles in this area for personal use then I have noticed anywhere else in Toronto.
 
Are you trolling?

I don't think a thread discussing the increasing cycling infrastructure is the place to go all woke about the impact on car drivers.

Edit - good grief - a dozen more posts since the one I replied to. We get it - you don't like bike lanes. Why mention it more than once a year or something? Move on!
I’ll move on when more than 4% of trips are bike trips? You’re giving over 90% of people a significant increase, and have no defined date on when it’s acceptable for this future traffic to materialize?

They’re also adding lanes on the industrial section of Kipling and Islington….
 

Back
Top