generalcanada
Senior Member
Is this the one extending from bluejays way to york?
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- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
DSC
Superstar
Indeed, with most of the cost in 2025 and some in 2026, so it will not be finished for over a year.
Northern Light
Superstar
Toronto1834
Active Member
DSC
Superstar
That would imply a level of planning that might be a stretch for some at the City - though it is what they SAY they try to do. :->
Northern Light
Superstar
I don't think its been mentioned yet in thread, apologies if I overlooked it, but the Avenue Road cycle tracks (interim condition) are substantially complete from Bloor to Davenport.
Interim meaning this is the quick-build version with paint and flexiposts, and shifted parking.
Interim meaning this is the quick-build version with paint and flexiposts, and shifted parking.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I haven't been following this discussion so apologies in advance if any of this has already been discussed.
The corner islands are a defining characteristic of the Protected Intersection design, which has been the standard layout of Dutch intersections for a few decades now.
The main advantages that the corner island creates layout are:
1. Better angle of conflict (visibility) between cyclists and right turning drivers, so drivers can see cyclists approaching via the side windows instead of the mirror (or even worse, a blind spot):
2. Protected area for cyclists to wait while making a two-stage left turn
3. Tighter effective corner radius, and thus slower/safer turning speeds since the corner islands prevents drivers from cutting the corner like they normally would on a street with bike lanes.
4. Shorter crossing distances for pedestrians and cyclists.
The above illustrations are all taken from the Ontario Traffic Council Protected Intersection Guide, which also has lots more info on the topic:
https://otc.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/OTC-Protected-Intersection-Guide-Final.pdf
The problem with the St. George & Bloor design is that it seems quite constrained, so instead of the smooth curves I encounter at the protected intersections in Ottawa, you have quite an abrupt turn around the corner island. Additionally the crossride setback seems to be less than the recommended 4m, which could actually put approaching cyclists in the blind spot for some vehicles. However, the corner islands do still achieve the other objectives, of which the most important is that it forces drivers to turn slowly. That safety benefit may be enough to outweigh the less-than-ideal geometry of the corner itself.
Painting the curbs could be an option, though generally we'd use yellow since it represents the left side of the lane. However, Toronto is generally reluctant to paint stuff since it wears off quickly in our weather.
At minimum, this is clearly a case where an Object Marker sign should be installed according to Ontario Traffic Manual Book 6:
In addition to reducing the likelihood of collisions with the island, we can reduce the consequences of collisions. One method is to use a bevelled curb, so the curb is angled instead of vertical. With angles of 45 degrees or below, cyclists are far less likely to fall down if they hit the curb.
Bevelled curb on a new bike path along Murray Ross at Steeles. This design has been well-received by road users including people with disabilities so we can expect it to become much more common across the City.
Looking Northern Light's photos here it appears that the bike side of the corner island is in fact bevelled, but it definitely isn't 45 degrees. Maybe they could shave back the curb a bit to get a lower angle and thereby reduce the tripping hazard.
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DSC
Superstar
Northern Light
Superstar
I got down to this area yesterday. Still a little bit of work to do. Painting/Lane marking is done, some curbs/flexiposts installed, but looks like some tweaks remain.
Northern Light
Superstar
Northern Light
Superstar
Third cycling post today. This time, my original pics of the protected intersection work at Bloor-St.George.
Having now looked at these in person, I concur with @reaperexpress than the beveled curbs are greater than 45d, they appear somewhere in the 65/70 area to my eye.
I lack the technical expertise to speak to the appropriateness of that, and offer it w/o judgement.
Having now looked at these in person, I concur with @reaperexpress than the beveled curbs are greater than 45d, they appear somewhere in the 65/70 area to my eye.
I lack the technical expertise to speak to the appropriateness of that, and offer it w/o judgement.
afransen
Senior Member
That is a very good design for deconflicting transit, cars, bicycles and riders. I guess we'd have to see how it stands up and how maintainable it is in all seasons.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Ottawa has dozens and dozens of protected intersections and they have much harsher winters than Toronto. In fact all new or reconstructed intersections with cycling infrastructure in Ottawa are protected intersections
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afransen
Senior Member
Was referring to the bus transit stop island set away from the sidewalk, with the bike path going between.
MisterF
Senior Member
I knew that Ottawa was ahead of the curve with protected intersections but I was surprised that they have that many. Props to Ottawa then.
We really need updated provincial standards for cycling infrastructure. Too many municipalities are still designing new bike infrastructure as lines of paint that disappear at intersections or multi use trails that treat cyclists like pedestrians at intersections. You can tell which municipalities take cycling seriously and which treat it as little more than checking a box. Clearly the provincial government (and MTO in particular) falls in the latter camp.
There's always a solution for snow removal. This type of design is no different.