[reaperexpress]

It's be a few years since I've cycled, but my recollection is that the bike and salt didn't get along very well at all!!

Also, despite being a mild winter, it's definitely colder now, than it was before Christmas!

No, bikes certainly don't mix well with salt. And nor do cars. Driving/riding in winter massively reduces the lifespan of the vehicle. In warmer climates such as California, you commonly see daily drivers that are two decades old (think 1996 Honda Civic). The same is true for cars/bikes here that don't get driven/ridden in winter. I personally have a cheap aluminum bike that I commute with all year, including winter months. It's 5 years old now, and it's starting to seem a bit worn though fortunately I haven't noticed any rust issues yet. Meanwhile my fancier "summer" (i.e. March-December) bike is well over a decade old and it's still in pristine condition.

EDIT: though now that I think about it, I also don't ride the "summer" bike in the rain, since it doesn't have fenders.

 

[innsertnamehere]

^yea I've got a beater bike I use for 90% of my riding (just a cheap one from Canadian Tire), then a nicer mountian bike for trail riding or longer distance trips.

 

[TOareaFan]

The biggest problem with the buses stopping in bike lanes is not the legalities of whether a bike can change lanes into a mixed vehicle lane....of course they can.....but these lane changes are dangerous....no matter what kind of vehicles are involved, when slower vehicles change lanes into the path of faster vehicles it can cause issues.....unlike the buses themselves, bicycles do not have yield signs on them.

My preferred solution to this would be for the buses to stop in the mixed vehicle lane aligned with where the stop is on the sidewalk, cars and/or bikes in the mixed lane would either stop or change lanes.....once the stopped vehicle opens its doors, bikes in the bike lanes would be governed by the same rules that all vehicles have with regards to open streetcar doors where streetcars travel in mixed traffic.

Everyone is safe then....I think.

 

[LNahid2000]

My preferred solution to this would be for the buses to stop in the mixed vehicle lane aligned with where the stop is on the sidewalk, cars and/or bikes in the mixed lane would either stop or change lanes.....once the stopped vehicle opens its doors, bikes in the bike lanes would be governed by the same rules that all vehicles have with regards to open streetcar doors where streetcars travel in mixed traffic.

That's how it works on Sherbourne...it works quite well.

I'm not understanding your first point though. Bike traffic usually moves faster than car traffic on Adelaide/Richmond during rush hour. Also, cyclists should always be doing a shoulder check before switching lanes.

 

[reaperexpress]

The biggest problem with the buses stopping in bike lanes is not the legalities of whether a bike can change lanes into a mixed vehicle lane....of course they can.....but these lane changes are dangerous....no matter what kind of vehicles are involved, when slower vehicles change lanes into the path of faster vehicles it can cause issues.....unlike the buses themselves, bicycles do not have yield signs on them.

My preferred solution to this would be for the buses to stop in the mixed vehicle lane aligned with where the stop is on the sidewalk, cars and/or bikes in the mixed lane would either stop or change lanes.....once the stopped vehicle opens its doors, bikes in the bike lanes would be governed by the same rules that all vehicles have with regards to open streetcar doors where streetcars travel in mixed traffic.

Everyone is safe then....I think.

I think you're describing the Roncesvalles-style bus stop? It's also used on Sherbourne and Wellesley.

Image by me on Flickr

That's an okay solution if there's a serious shortage of space, but the most efficient solution is simply an island platform. Bikes can keep flowing while the bus loads/unloads, just like cars in the left lanes. That eliminates the incentive for hardened cyclists to ride in the general traffic lanes. This design is used on Queens Quay East for the 6 Bay bus.

Image by Mark Wagenbuur on BicycleDutch - I don't have any pics of the new QQ layout on this computer

On one hand, Richmond/Adelaide have no bus service outside peak periods, but on the other hand there is actually space for an island anyway. The minimum bike lane width is 1.5 metres and the minimum TTC island platform width is 2.4 metres. So any time we can allocate more than 3.9 metres to the bike lane + buffer, there's room for a platform, and there are many spots where we can get that much by narrowing the left lanes to 3.3 metres.

 

[Filip]

^bikes are allowed to switch lanes, just like cars. Switching lanes into a car lane is legal. When a bus stops on a regular road to pick up passengers, cars can switch lanes to pass, they don't have to sit and wait while the bus picks up passengers. Its no different for bikes.

Getting angry at the bus is unnecessary though, for sure.

Since this is still a pilot, the permanent version should have Roncesvalles-like bumpouts at the bus stops. Bikes should yield to the passengers getting off the bus, simple.

Easier said than done though.. Just today, my bus blocks the bike lane for us to get off, and suddenly we're dodging cyclists on the sidewalk.

 

[innsertnamehere]

^yea, the bump outs are rough too. Too often I see cyclists flying through them as passengers are boarding on Sherbourne. I don't think there is really a perfect way of doing it, the bump outs are simply the best way of doing it.

 

[the lemur]

I think the "crazy" cyclists are more visible, but they are a minority. On Adelaide, I see cyclists waiting behind busses patiently. It is cumbersome to change lanes however, as there is an embedded streetcar track between Bay and Victoria...

The track west of University appears to be either filled or removed entirely. Changing lanes is still a bit tricky though, depending on the speed of the traffic.

 

[UserNameToronto]

More signs are up on the new Richmond/Adelaide section, spaced every 100 feet or so, warning of a $150 fine for blocking the lanes. I haven't found the lanes to be blocked terribly often, but I do appreciate that the signs are helpful. Also it helps make it even more clear for motorists that blocking the bike lane is not OK. There are also signs from the City asking for public feedback re: the bike lanes.

Was in a train of 5 cyclists today at 8am.

 

[the lemur]

the most efficient solution is simply an island platform. Bikes can keep flowing while the bus loads/unloads, just like cars in the left lanes. That eliminates the incentive for hardened cyclists to ride in the general traffic lanes. This design is used on Queens Quay East for the 6 Bay bus.

It's about time Toronto started realizing putting the bike lane between the bus/streetcar and the people waiting for it is a bad idea.

 

[muller877]

It's about time Toronto started realizing putting the bike lane between the bus/streetcar and the people waiting for it is a bad idea.

If there is limited space on the street, everyone has to make sacrifices. Cars lost a traffic lane. And oh no...bikes have to share a lane with a bus! Cyclists sometimes need to get a grip and realize they have to share the road or their own dedicated lane of traffic with a vehicle that may have 50 people on it.

 

[UserNameToronto]

If there is limited space on the street, everyone has to make sacrifices. Cars lost a traffic lane. And oh no...bikes have to share a lane with a bus! Cyclists sometimes need to get a grip and realize they have to share the road or their own dedicated lane of traffic with a vehicle that may have 50 people on it.

I think the issue is, a cyclist might hit a pedestrian who is getting on or off a bus. Why not try to minimize that sort of conflict (if space allows)?

 

[the lemur]

If there is limited space on the street, everyone has to make sacrifices. Cars lost a traffic lane. And oh no...bikes have to share a lane with a bus! Cyclists sometimes need to get a grip and realize they have to share the road or their own dedicated lane of traffic with a vehicle that may have 50 people on it.

It's not much of a 'dedicated' lane if you do have to share it. Imagine a sidewalk that becomes part of the roadway so pedestrians have to 'share' space with cars.

Cars didn't lose a traffic lane; bikes are traffic too. The point of separating a transit stop from a bike lane is, as UserNameToronto said, to keep those 50 passengers and passing cyclists apart so both groups can get on with where they're going, without conflict.

 

[reaperexpress]

If there is limited space on the street, everyone has to make sacrifices. Cars lost a traffic lane. And oh no...bikes have to share a lane with a bus! Cyclists sometimes need to get a grip and realize they have to share the road or their own dedicated lane of traffic with a vehicle that may have 50 people on it.

In addition to The Lemur's comment, no one said we always need to have island platforms everywhere with no exception. We're simply pointing out that the Roncy/Sherbourne design is not best practice as some have suggested, it's merely a decent compromise when we're really short on space.

In my comment, I suggested that the space for Richmond/Adelaide bus stop platforms could come mostly from narrowing the bike lanes to the minimum permissible 1.5 metres at bus stops, down from the current ~2.3 metres. The remaining space could come from a mix of traffic lane narrowing and sidewalk narrowing (consider that waiting patrons will no longer be taking up space on the sidewalk). Sounds like a reasonable sharing of sacrifice to me.

Bus stop islands can actually increase the amount of space available to pedestrians, since they would replace the painted buffer which currently takes up a metre of right-of-way space without having any direct function. See this hypothetical scenario (via StreetMix):

Current:

Proposed: I have divided the 1.0 metres evenly between the sidewalk and the bus platform.

Now there's more space for people walking, more space for people waiting for the bus, and no longer any conflict between cyclists and boarding/disembarking passengers. If we need even more space for some reason, we could also narrow the bike lane.

 

[muller877]

I think the issue is, a cyclist might hit a pedestrian who is getting on or off a bus. Why not try to minimize that sort of conflict (if space allows)?

The problem with Toronto's cycle community (or the 10%+ that are inconsiderate)....there will be a pedestrian right of way over the bike lane as your proposal. 100% guarantee that a portion of the bikes won't even give way to the pedestirans here.

If the bus pulls 100% to the curb there is no conflict between a bike and a transit user. The bike either has to stop or risk going around the bus....just like a car would have to if it stops in the vehicle lane. I don't see the problem..cars do it all the time, why can't bikes?