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- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
TwinHuey
Active Member
Received yesterday from the Danforth Kingston 4 All Team:
Thank you for supporting our campaign to have a Danforth Kingston 4 All! Together, we are ensuring the City hears our calls to make Danforth Ave & Kingston Rd safer for everyone, better for business, beautiful, and more sustainable.
The City’s Danforth Kingston Complete Street project has already been delayed by a year as public consultation meeting dates have been postponed again and again. If we want to see this project brought to life in 2024 as a key local priority and as an important city-wide corridor, the City needs to host a public consultation meeting now. This is an important first step for local residents and businesses to learn about the project and begin receiving feedback from residents.
Help us reach this key milestone by taking two minutes to send an email to Mayor Olivia Chow and local City Councillors today. We’ve set up a simple tool to help you send an email, and we encourage you to customize it to reflect your own experiences with road safety in Scarborough, or other reasons to support complete streets along Danforth Ave and Kingston Rd.
Thank you for supporting our campaign to have a Danforth Kingston 4 All! Together, we are ensuring the City hears our calls to make Danforth Ave & Kingston Rd safer for everyone, better for business, beautiful, and more sustainable.
The City’s Danforth Kingston Complete Street project has already been delayed by a year as public consultation meeting dates have been postponed again and again. If we want to see this project brought to life in 2024 as a key local priority and as an important city-wide corridor, the City needs to host a public consultation meeting now. This is an important first step for local residents and businesses to learn about the project and begin receiving feedback from residents.
Help us reach this key milestone by taking two minutes to send an email to Mayor Olivia Chow and local City Councillors today. We’ve set up a simple tool to help you send an email, and we encourage you to customize it to reflect your own experiences with road safety in Scarborough, or other reasons to support complete streets along Danforth Ave and Kingston Rd.
Northern Light
Superstar
There's a limited amount I can say about this one...........but I will say this much, its not dead. But currently, I'm not convinced it goes ahead this year, unfortunately. I could be wrong on that, but there's more consultation to be done, and more design, and then tendering........so I'm moderately hopeful we'll see this done next year. If we get it approved this year, that would be wonderful progress.
TwinHuey
Active Member
Thank you @Northern Light for your insight.
It may be noteworthy that the proposed condo developments along the Kingston Road motel strip include parking for over 1,600 bicycles and we now have 5 Bike Share stations.
Unfortunately, unless you are willing to ride in traffic, there are no direct cycle connections from Cliffcrest to the rest of Toronto.
I posted the message from Danforth Kingston 4All hoping that other UT members use the link to support the project.
Fingers crossed it will be approved this year.
It may be noteworthy that the proposed condo developments along the Kingston Road motel strip include parking for over 1,600 bicycles and we now have 5 Bike Share stations.
Unfortunately, unless you are willing to ride in traffic, there are no direct cycle connections from Cliffcrest to the rest of Toronto.
I posted the message from Danforth Kingston 4All hoping that other UT members use the link to support the project.
Fingers crossed it will be approved this year.
UntitledCyclist
New Member
Just posting this blog link here by longtime cycling advocate jnyyz, outlining what by accounts was an extremely unpleasant and rancorous "cycling plan consultation" held ad hoc by Ward 2 councillor and noted cycling advocate (jokes) Holyday.
I'll let the author speak for himself, as I wasn't there. But I think we, meaning cyclists and advocates, cannot ignore the levels of visceral rage and opposition to new and existing cycling projects. I don't know the solutions, as the arguments currently being bandied about, like bike lanes causing pollution or bike lanes hampering EMS times, are clearly unsupported, but also very powerful in a populist sense.
What it MOSTLY comes down to, in my view, is fear of change, hatred of "others," and a massive hatred by drivers of being slowed down or inconvenienced. I know this isn't meant to be an advocacy forum, per se, but I am all ears to hearing how those in this space feel this kind of misinformation and anger can be countered, redirected or neutralized (the anger, not the people).
I'll let the author speak for himself, as I wasn't there. But I think we, meaning cyclists and advocates, cannot ignore the levels of visceral rage and opposition to new and existing cycling projects. I don't know the solutions, as the arguments currently being bandied about, like bike lanes causing pollution or bike lanes hampering EMS times, are clearly unsupported, but also very powerful in a populist sense.
What it MOSTLY comes down to, in my view, is fear of change, hatred of "others," and a massive hatred by drivers of being slowed down or inconvenienced. I know this isn't meant to be an advocacy forum, per se, but I am all ears to hearing how those in this space feel this kind of misinformation and anger can be countered, redirected or neutralized (the anger, not the people).
junctionist
Senior Member
Cycling advocacy groups could raise money for ads in the media countering the misinformation and to portray bike lanes and cyclists in a positive light. The government could also do so given the public benefits of bike lanes.
UntitledCyclist
New Member
Good ideas. I think there are limits to the effectiveness of public advertising in a day and age dominated by splintered social media sites and misinformation. But I'd love to see some open, clear fact-based statements by the city as well. Too often they are unable to speak forcefully. It's not really their role as bureaucrats, but seeing videos on Twitter of city staff being shouted down over the most factual innocuous things, like "cycling helps reduce greenhouse gases" is just wild, and makes me fear for where we are headed as a city.
Cycle Toronto
New Member
Thought some of you might be interested (or more likely dismayed) at some of the behaviour at last night's meeting that @UntitledCyclist is referring to. Definitely the most chaotic City of Toronto meeting I have ever witnessed.
Northern Light
Superstar
Unfortunate that the night went the way it did, I appreciate the activist attending and sharing.
City staff have my every sympathy.
Keeping in mind that I'm a strong supporter cycle tracks and related infra.; I do have to say, that those concerns have some hints of truth to them depending on the project. The main issue is that they are exaggerated wildy; and that constructive dialogue as to how they might be addressed is of little interest to those making such arguments.
The pollution argument is largely one around idling of vehicles and their associated exhaust; the move to hybrid and electric vehicles will remove this argument almost entirely by the mid 2030s; but where there is some increase in congestion, there is some truth, at the margins, that there may be a modest increase in pollution in the short term.
The EMS argument likewise does have some validity, depending on the project, and time period during which one measures.
But generally, any increase in response time is minimal, and confined to a small part of the day, the issues is almost non-existent on many projects as well.
Such that there is some adverse effect, for some projects, at some time periods, this can, generally be mitigated; but it requires additional tradeoffs such as parking reductions, or putting in place alternate routes of travel for EMS/Fire etc.
I think you're on point here; but would add; many people react, wrongly, by feeling they are being pushed into cycling, which they don't want to do; rather than sharing the road with others.
I have absolutely had that conversation........."But I want to drive" to which I say "Great, no one is stopping you, they are simply allowing someone else to cycle"
I also hear, but "why not put them on the side street"; to which I answer "Why don't you drive down Strathmore instead of Danforth? The answer, invariably is........"Its not continuous, too many stop signs, not where I'm going" To which I offer, "Oddly cyclists feel the same way"
Getting people to listen calmly is a challenge at times.
I'll come back to this one in a subsequent post. It deserves more time than I have just now.
goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
Some of the comments going around in that meeting make me genuinely concerned for the safety of cyclists in this city. People making comments about running over cyclists or having a desire to run cyclists off the road. And Holyday just ignores them or eggs them on. What a joke.
Cars are perhaps the most antisocial device ever invented. Smartphones, for all their flaws still allow formation of human connection.
Cars are perhaps the most antisocial device ever invented. Smartphones, for all their flaws still allow formation of human connection.
facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
I hope this won't be repeated at next Tuesday's meeting about the proposed West Parkdale cycling connections:
https://www.toronto.ca/community-pe...e-projects/west-parkdale-cycling-connections/
Please attend if you are in the area
https://www.toronto.ca/community-pe...e-projects/west-parkdale-cycling-connections/
Please attend if you are in the area
UntitledCyclist
New Member
I appreciate your efforts at calm measured response, really! I'm just not sure I agree with you buying in, even partially, to the talking points of anti-bike lane enthusiasts.
I understand the pollution/idling argument in theory, but reject it without data. You can say idling cars pollute more, ok that's backed up. You can say bike lanes increase congestion, debatable, but let's allow it. You can say congestion increases idling cars. Also fair, but not completely as most modern vehicles shut off at a stop. So these cars are not truly idling they are just moving more slowly, with occasional stops at traffic jams.
In reality more cars = more pullution. If every car was flying by at perfectly efficient 60-70 kph speeds that might have some modest lessening of air pollution, but is also utterly unrealistic and not a city I'd ever want to live in.
I live on Eglinton west, where the Allen Road is, and the cars here are backed up to Bathurst on a regular basis. There are no bike lanes, or minial stubs of ones that Metrolinx put in. Congestion is a function of too many cars, all driving at the same time. It predates bike lanes, and even if it has been worsened by them, I will need some kind of atmospheric study to show that the bike lanes themselves have *caused* some kind of heightened air pollution in the area.
You acknowledge the EMS impacts are minimal if at all.So I'm not sure why we need to accept this with any validity as an argument against bike lanes. Again, show me the data, and then let's work to solve it.
Northern Light
Superstar
Sometimes, its important to walk away w/o arguing; but; simply saying 'you're an idiot' to people, some of whom are making a good faith argument (many others are not); is generally not a path to provoking anything but more anger and hostility.
One also needs to engage, not merely to educate, but to understand when arguments are good faith or bad faith. ie. if I can prove to you that you're concern is misplaced and/or can be worked through will you agree to support the cycle track? If the answer is no, the discussion is moot; but if the answer is yes, then you have a potential convert.
Its import to assess how many people, roughly, fall into each camp, to assess the appropriate response.
Bike lanes are coming, soon, for this section of Eglinton.
eglintonTOday Complete Street Project
Stakeholder feedback and traffic impact analysis are currently informing changes to the proposed design. A comprehensive monitoring and data collection plan will also take place before staff report to IEC and City Council in March 2024. In 2014 City Council approved the Eglinton Connects...
www.toronto.ca
I think this will be in the March report to I&E, but we'll have to see; that was the plan at one point.
goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
Fortunately, west parkdale is not Ward 2 (Toronto's version of hell) so while I expect opposition it will probably be more subdued with actual grounded talking points
facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
I hope you're right. I'm on a neighbourhood Facebook group and there are some people loudly opposing the plans that sounds not too different from those in Ward 2