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Regardless of where they put the trains, they most likely won't fill in any extra space. Its too valuable to use as possible conduit for utilities in the future.

I'm sure there will be a drain and troughed conduit. But everything else within that bottom third may just be poured concrete right up to track level. Or the track will be elevated using pillars with a sizable void along either side? I'm curious.
 
The TTC evaluated 12.2m tunnel and the 10.7m tunnel and went with a 10.7m tunnel. They had looked at a 12.2 m tunnel to be able to build the stations within the tunnel via offset platforms or split level stations. However, when they looked at the need to have crossovers near the station and the logistics of offset platforms they ended up going with a 10.7m tunnel. Beneath the tracks put concrete seems like overkill, but the the cost of making it hollow and able to support trains over a long service life would have me think that possibility would be ruled out. Likely conduits and pipes and concrete poured around them will be used. In some soil and water table conditions one consideration is putting enough weight into the tunnel to counteract any buoyancy caused by the large volume of the tunnel.
 
Beneath the tracks put concrete seems like overkill, but the the cost of making it hollow and able to support trains over a long service life would have me think that possibility would be ruled out.
I mean, tunnels only have a 100 year life until they need to be redone, sometimes earlier (bah Eglinton to Finch tunnels!) so I can't imagine a support system in the tunnel couldnt be made to last as long either.

I'm not sure what they will do however.
 
TBM is so big, once it's done you could place it permanently somewhere and turn it into a condo. So my question with a TBM this large is, once finished the tracks would sit roughly in the centre of the tunnel. What do they use to fill the space between the bottom of the tunnel liner and the guideways. Would it be solid concrete, or is there some fill used between? If it's pure concrete that requires a heckuva lot.

There will be drains and some conduits placed in there, but the bulk of the volume will be filled with low-density concrete.

Dan
 
I mean, tunnels only have a 100 year life until they need to be redone, sometimes earlier (bah Eglinton to Finch tunnels!) so I can't imagine a support system in the tunnel couldnt be made to last as long either.

I'm not sure what they will do however.
But thats more just an in place rebuild no? London obviously has much older tunnels
 

Line 3 Bus Replacement Study Final Recommendations (For Action)​

See report at link.

It is recommended that the TTC Board:
1. Approve the replacement of Line 3 train service with an express bus service in Q4 2023;
2. Approve the conversion of the Line 3 right-of-way between Kennedy Station and Ellesmere Station to a bus roadway, with stops at Tara Avenue, Lawrence Avenue East, and Ellesmere Road;
3. Approve the operation of a temporary express bus service, as described in this report, until the conversion of the Line 3 right-of-way to a bus roadway is complete;
4. Report back through the 2023 budget process on the operating and capital funding required to advance the Line 3 bus replacement project;
5. Endorse the City of Toronto’s efforts to develop adaptive reuse of the Line 3 infrastructure that will not be required for continued transit service; and,
6. Forward this report to the City Manager, City of Toronto, the President and CEO, Metrolinx, and the Deputy Minister, Ministry of Transportation, for their information.
 

Scarborough RT may find new life as a multimillion-dollar dedicated bus lane

From link.

The Scarborough RT may be nearing the end of its life, but it’s set to be reborn as a bus line.

In a report released Thursday, TTC staff recommend converting a portion of the Scarborough RT’s right-of-way into a dedicated busway when the RT shuts down at the end of 2023.

Thirty-seven years after it opened, the notoriously unreliable RT has already outlived its intended design life by a decade, and is scheduled to be replaced by the province’s controversial three-stop, $5.5-billion Scarborough subway extension. But that project won’t be done until 2030 at the earliest, and in the meantime Scarborough transit riders will be stuck taking buses.

After examining options for replacement bus service, TTC staff determined adapting a roughly four kilometre portion of the RT route to allow buses to run in their own dedicated corridor “will provide customers with higher-quality service, and require less operating costs compared to just using regular city streets.” The recommendation will go to the TTC board next Thursday for approval.

The conversion of the right-of-way wouldn’t begin until the RT stops running, and would take until 2025 to complete. The TTC estimates it would cost $49.5 million, a figure that includes removing existing track and train systems, paving the right-of-way, and building new bus stops.

Transit advocacy group TTCriders welcomed the busway proposal, which it says is “the fastest and most reliable replacement option.”

But in a news release the group said the city needs to act fast to implement measures like on-street bus lanes and transit signal priority, in order to ensure buses match current RT service levels during the two years when the conversion is under construction and replacement buses will operate on the street.

“Politicians must act now to keep Scarborough connected,” said TTCriders member Elahveyini Veemharaj Aswaththaman.

Under the TTC proposal, the ground-level portion of the RT right-of-way between Kennedy and Ellesmere Stations would be converted to a busway, with stops at Tara Avenue, Lawrence Avenue East and Ellesmere Road.

Between Ellesmere Station and Scarborough Centre Station, where the RT runs on an elevated guideway, replacement buses would operate on-street, via Ellesmere Road and Brimley Road. The RT stations at Midland and McCowan would be shut down.

Local advocates have proposed repurposing decommissioned parts of the RT for community uses, like an elevated park. The TTC says it will continue to explore those options for sections not needed for the busway.

Although TTC staff believe the right-of-way option will offer Scarborough riders the best service, trips will still be longer than they are on the RT. According to the report, the RT takes about 10 minutes to get from Scarborough Centre and Kennedy, while using the busway it will take about 15 minutes. Between 2023 and 2025 when the conversion of the right-of-way is under construction, the trip will take 25 minutes using on-street buses.

In addition to the almost $50 million needed to convert the RT right-of-way, the TTC estimates replacement bus service will also require almost $60 million in capital funding to modify the platforms at Kennedy and Scarborough Centre stations, build a temporary bus terminal at Kennedy, and keep the RT operational until 2023. More than $62 million of the $108 million total isn’t funded.

The replacement bus service will also cost an additional $67.8 million to operate between 2023 and 2030, which is also unfunded.

The TTC and city are in talks with the provincial government, which is in charge of the subway plan, about covering the costs.

Coun. Paul Ainslie (Ward 24, Scarborough-Guildwood) said seven years of bus trips and millions of dollars in extra expenses could have been avoided if the city and province had stuck with the original plan of replacing the RT with a cheaper light rail transit (LRT) line that would have served more people. The LRT was scrapped in 2013.

In the course of the decade-long political dispute about Scarborough transit, proponents of the subway promised there would be a seamless transition from the RT closure to the opening of the subway, but Ainslie said that was always “a pie-in-the-sky fantasy.”

“I will always be disappointed that we’re going to spend tens of millions of dollars doing this (replacement bus plan), when if we had stuck with the original LRT it would have been built by now,” Ainslie said.
Could become a bikeway after 2030.
 

TTC’s Green Bus Program: Final Results of TTC’s Head-to-Head eBus Evaluation (For Action)​

See report at this link.

It is recommended that the TTC Board:
1. Receive for information the results of the TTC’s eBus Head-to-Head Evaluation as outlined in this report; and
2. Delegate authority to the TTC Chief Executive Officer to:
a. Enter into contribution agreement(s), where required, with government partners to receive any net new funding / financing for the TTC’s Green Bus program; and
b. Subject to commitment of matching funds from provincial and/or federal government partners, amend existing and pending contract(s) to increase the eBus procurement quantity and associated infrastructure works in proportion to the additional funds committed.

Implementation Points
The TTC’s Green Bus Program identifies a procurement strategy to transition the fleet to become zero-emissions by 2037, three years ahead of the City’s Net Zero target of 2040 and three years ahead of the international target set through C40’s Fossil-Fuel-Free Streets Declaration.
When the entire fleet is zero-emissions, the following benefits are expected to be realized:
1. Greenhouse gas emissions will be reduced by approximately 250,000 tonnes of CO2 annually;
2. Diesel emissions will be eliminated from bus operations thereby improving local air quality for employees, customers, and the public;
3. Vehicle reliability and availability will have increased by an estimated 25%; and
4. Total life cycle cost of zero-emissions buses is estimated to be lower than any currently available fossil-fuel propulsion alternative.
On February 28, 2022, the TTC awarded the following contracts for buses to be delivered by the end of 2023.
1) Nova Bus (LFS Hybrid Platform) – 40 foot hybrid electric buses (quantity 134)
2) New Flyer (Xcelsior Hybrid Platform) – 40 foot hybrid electric buses (quantity 134)
3) New Flyer (Xcelsior Hybrid Platform) – 60 foot hybrid electric buses (quantity 68)
The TTC’s Green Bus Program includes the procurement of only zero-emission buses by 2024, with a target of having the whole fleet zero-emissions by 2040, which is aligned to the City of Toronto’s Transform TO target of zero emissions by 2040.

I can see the electric or hybrid electric buses using that busway starting in 2025, until 2030. No mention if they will use the 40 or 60 foot buses.
 
BYD's buses failed on all fronts here. New Flyer is clearly leading the pack in BEBs, but still has a way to go before it compares to the reliability of diesel.

NFI offers really reliable electric buses – and has since the 1970s. Only thing is, they’re wired.

I’m still not convinced that battery-electric is the way to go, especially with heavy fleet vehicles.
 
NFI offers really reliable electric buses – and has since the 1970s. Only thing is, they’re wired.

I’m still not convinced that battery-electric is the way to go, especially with heavy fleet vehicles.
Me either. They’ll have an expensive battery replacement program half way through the bus’ life. Could they keep the buses longer than diesel buses is the question.

I guess TTC really doesn’t want to maintain a trolley bus infrastructure although I don’t see why that would be such a hard task for downtown. The only trouble would be getting the bus from the garage to downtown.
 
Me either. They’ll have an expensive battery replacement program half way through the bus’ life. Could they keep the buses longer than diesel buses is the question.

I guess TTC really doesn’t want to maintain a trolley bus infrastructure although I don’t see why that would be such a hard task for downtown. The only trouble would be getting the bus from the garage to downtown.

Would the conversion of the TTC streetcar fleet to pantograph operation be an issue for the trolley bus overheads? At every intersection with both street car and trolley bus traffic, wouldn't the pantograph potentially short out the trolley bus wires? My understanding is this was the reason the conversion of the streetcars to pantographs could only take place after the use of trolley buses had been ended in Toronto.
 
Wonder how they will handle the snow plowing on the soon-to-be bus right-of-way? They'll need to create a road verge next to the path.
 

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