[Jaye101]

Scarborough already has all day RER lite on Stouffville and LSE with more improvements are coming. North York has only the paltry Richmond Hill line with no midday, evening or weekend service (not even busses).

There's a thing called GO Transit. You've never brought it up but it looms as the largest item of "historical context." Tens of thousands use(d) it daily at its many station stops all over Scarborough. You can't spout of about Scarborough transit history and ignore that elephant that's been in the room for 60 years.

Scarborough wanted GO and didn't care about else. Spare me any "but what about now" crap. Here's context from someone who lived "historically" (cause I guess the 20th century is now historical) : Scarborough got the exact shitty terrible transit it demanded to have. All I hear now is regret for the terrible decisions of the past, and blaming everyone else for making their own mess. Look inwards to find the problem, not to the rest of the City because we moved on while you still stomp your feet and slam doors shut like children having a temper tantrum.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, you can make a valid argument about social equity and "three cities" and forgotten poor, etc... but many vocal people who chose to forget them were Scarborough residents, many of them still living there, driving to work each day, often by choice.

People in Scarborough don't typically use GO. There's no culture of driving to GO stations in Scarborough. This is not Brampton. So once you're on the TTC you might as well remain in the system, unless you wanna more than double your fare. Also, most people who use transit in Scarborough are not travelling downtown. Though increased integration would be welcomed.

But where did all that ridership come from?

Apart from people going to/from Scarborough Town Centre, it's all people connecting in from the bus lines which sprawl out all over Scarborough. There has been near zero development along the intermediate stations, or at McCowan. The only stations on the RT that actually matter are Kennedy and STC. It is a glorified shuttle to there, hardly a transit oriented development success story.

Scarborough Town Centre doesn't get buses from all over Scarborough, nice try. But even so, the shortest route is often routed elsewhere. Example, I used to live at Morningside and Finch, took the subway to UofT St George. everyday. The fastest route to school was a 40 min ride to Kennedy Station at Eglinton. The traffic around STC makes most trips even for areas adjacent longer if routed through STC. Often, perpendicular routes like Steeles East to Finch Station from as far east as Markham Road are shorter than the 4km bus ride to STC for trips headed downtown. I recognize such trips would be better handled by GO transit and increased fare integration for downtown bound trips. Too bad that's not typically where they are headed, nor does it negate the need for a more central, useful terminus for Line 2.

The ridership has also been at capacity during rush for decades (RT). And no, STC isn't an example of how to build a transit oriented community but there's no room for them on the train anyways.

Sheppard East turns something virtually useless into a line that connects to 3 Subway lines and 2 GO lines. The effects of which will change travel patterns of people well into York Region.

As a Liberal who lives in the Junction, I'm happy Doug Ford won if not for this one reason. Scarborough.

 

[carlosdanger]

this would be more relevant if GO and the TTC had fare integration. hopefully that happens one day.

I'm not pro any particular borough, but just as an interesting thought here's how many stations each borough will eventually have. this includes existing and planned as of now. Scarborough is way down the list and this doesn't include a Line 4 extension. every borough will still be underserved, even after the completion of all planned stations. the whole region Toronto + 905 (Vaughn + Markham + Richmond Hill) needs pretty close to double this number in my opinion.

Toronto: 63
North York: 35
Etobicoke: 17
Scarborough: 13
York: 10
East York: 4
905: 7

I am very much pro-Scarborough and I make no effort to hide my biases or what I would like to see changed. I am a bit suspicious of people that doth protest any form of bias too much (no indication here that you'd be included).

These are important data points, and I think kilometres of subway and maybe to a lesser degree, light metro, would add even more useful information.

A small defence (and I do not expect reciprocation) of less suburban areas, but many of their stations are closer together and some are quite lightly used. Not necessarily because of poor placement, but proximity to others. I'm thinking of ones like Chester. RT stations are quite poorly placed. I also think this would apply to the Crosstown. Numbers will be juiced, but I don't think the way the at-grade Crosstown stops should be thought of in the same realm as the subways and light metros. Same with other at-grade LRTs.

 

[carlosdanger]

As a Liberal who lives in the Junction, I'm happy Doug Ford won if not for this one reason. Scarborough.

Thank you. This is nice to see. Sometimes it seems like all I see is bad-faith and wolf-in-sheep's-clothing arguments. Oh, and I almost forgot, concern-trolling.

Cliche incoming: I don't care for many of Ford's moves outside of transit, but if his transit plans are realized, I'd have a buck-a-beer with him.

 

[smallspy]

People in Scarborough don't typically use GO. There's no culture of driving to GO stations in Scarborough. This is not Brampton. So once you're on the TTC you might as well remain in the system, unless you wanna more than double your fare. Also, most people who use transit in Scarborough are not travelling downtown. Though increased integration would be welcomed.

So, what do you call Scarborough, Eglinton, Guildwood, Rouge Hill, Agincourt and Miliken Stations then? All of which have large parking lots that have been expanded over the years.

Dan

 

[Richard White]

So, what do you call Scarborough, Eglinton, Guildwood, Rouge Hill, Agincourt and Miliken Stations then? All of which have large parking lots that have been expanded over the years.

Dan

Scarborough and Rouge Hill though are antiques. There has been a station in those locations for nearly a century.

 

[T3G]

Scarborough Town Centre doesn't get buses from all over Scarborough, nice try.

Huh? Have you ever looked at a map of the services that run out of STC?

In the most literal sense, it doesn't get buses from literally EVERY corner of the borough, no. But it does cover a very large area. Which is my point. It's the same reason why Kennedy enjoys such high ridership despite not having much around it, it's not because people live in the desolate wasteland around the station, but because the station has robust bus connections all over the place. It doesn't mean Kennedy is a well developed area or a success story, all it means is that the station is located in a strategic area and is well suited for bus connections.

So, nice try.

 

[blacksquirrels]

I am very much pro-Scarborough and I make no effort to hide my biases or what I would like to see changed. I am a bit suspicious of people that doth protest any form of bias too much (no indication here that you'd be included).

These are important data points, and I think kilometres of subway and maybe to a lesser degree, light metro, would add even more useful information.

A small defence (and I do not expect reciprocation) of less suburban areas, but many of their stations are closer together and some are quite lightly used. Not necessarily because of poor placement, but proximity to others. I'm thinking of ones like Chester. RT stations are quite poorly placed. I also think this would apply to the Crosstown. Numbers will be juiced, but I don't think the way the at-grade Crosstown stops should be thought of in the same realm as the subways and light metros. Same with other at-grade LRTs.

everyone has biases to some degree. I am very much pro-Toronto, but that doesn't change the fact that all boroughs & the 905 are underserved by transit.

here is a list of kilometres of subway/metro (excluding Line 5's surface rail & Line 6 ) as per your request, once all planned projects are complete.

Toronto: 50.8 km
North York: 21.2 km
Scarborough: 12.6 km
Etobicoke: 11.3 km
York: 8.4 km
East York: 7.8 km
905: 8.7 km

TOTAL: 120.8 km

I tend to agree with you that surface LRT shouldn't be given the same designation as subway/metro unless underground or elevated. my dream scenario for Toronto + 905 would be something that rivals the Madrid Metro. The two cities and regions are similar in size and populations, although Lines 5 & 6 in Toronto are more similar to ML 1, 2, 3 & 4 in Madrid, so I can see where you are coming from. even after all planned expansions of the TTC subway + light metro we're still not even half way there, but we're getting closer at least.

 

[carlosdanger]

Thanks for crunching the numbers, blacksquirrels.

I am pro-amalgamation and I want all of the parts of the city to be better integrated. Goes for the region as a whole, as well.

I understand that everyone, including myself, want some projects more than other projects.

Someone on Twitter posted a picture of a physical map at a station that included the Crosstown, and it differentiated the below and ground-level sections with a thicker line width. I like that. I don't remember what the handle was.

Map Added:

 

[sixrings]

Thanks for crunching the numbers, blacksquirrels.

I am pro-amalgamation and I want all of the parts of the city to be better integrated. Goes for the region as a whole, as well.

I understand that everyone, including myself, want some projects more than other projects.

Someone on Twitter posted a picture of a physical map at a station that included the Crosstown, and it differentiated the below and ground-level sections with a thicker line width. I like that. I don't remember what the handle was.

Map Added:

View attachment 460769

Agreed. The region as a whole. Vaughan. Richmond hill. Pickering. And then the outskirts like Mississauga

 

[carlosdanger]

Interestingly, Vaughan and Scarborough have the same number of subway stops.

 

[sixrings]

Interestingly, Vaughan and Scarborough have the same number of subway stops.

Vaughan is 29 km from union while Scarborough is 27km. Square one to union is 26 kms. Thank God Scarborough has Doug fighting for it.

Doug fights for the little guy. Meanwhile Hazel was content making sure her Mississauga road buddies like Don Cherry never had a subway ruin their bucolic surroundings.

 

[Jonny5]

So, what do you call Scarborough, Eglinton, Guildwood, Rouge Hill, Agincourt and Miliken Stations then? All of which have large parking lots that have been expanded over the years.

Dan

Shhh! They don't exist! And if they do no one uses them!

And for god sake don't show him the people getting on the GO at Kennedy; that's ex-communication from the Church of Perpetual Scarborough Suffering.

 

[sixrings]

Shhh! They don't exist! And if they do no one uses them!

And for god sake don't show him the people getting on the GO at Kennedy; that's ex-communication from the Church of Perpetual Scarborough Suffering.

Have some empathy. This person had to leave their favourite part of the city in order to live in the Junction just to access decent transit. That is one large sacrifice.

 

[carlosdanger]

Vaughan is 29 km from union while Scarborough is 27km. Square one to union is 26 kms. Thank God Scarborough has Doug fighting for it.

Doug fights for the little guy. Meanwhile Hazel was content making sure her Mississauga road buddies like Don Cherry never had a subway ruin their bucolic surroundings.

At their closest points, Scarborough is under 9km, Mississauga is under 15km, Vaughan is about 17km. Both the border and a single point tell you some, but not a lot about areas that are so large in area.

 

[sixrings]

At their closest points, Scarborough is under 9km, Mississauga is under 15km, Vaughan is about 17km. Both the border and a single point tell you some, but not a lot about areas that are so large in area.

So what you’re telling me is anyway you slice it Mississauga is being screwed. Thanks for the pro tips.