Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Subway is funded and going to be built. No time to change our minds again. How about ranting about other useless things such as converting the Sheppard Subway to an LRT 
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Sheppard East and Finch West should be a Bus ROW if anything. It meets the ridership, is a considerable improvement over the current bus routes, is cheaper (and the money can be moved to the DRL) and can be built quicker with less obstruction, and if the ridership does increase it can easily be converted to LRT.
SJD_Toronto
Active Member
Subway is funded and going to be built. No time to change our minds again. How about ranting about other useless things such as converting the Sheppard Subway to an LRT
Yup. Just go with the subway. What bothers me most about the new council going back to the LRT plan is what if the LRT plan is turned down by the province? Then not only would the new mayor look foolish, the local government does not look forward thinking in its transit planning. The LRT plan was a fine plan back when it was good to go. Now with the subway plan fully endorsed, it would be silly to go back to the LRT plan now. Build the subway and then make new LRT and BRT plans for Scarborough.
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ehlow
Senior Member
Yeah... I would have been fine with the Scar-LRT, but I think I'm going to go with the current plan of McCowan Danforth extension aka Scar-Subway and partially at-grade Eglinton.
Yes the McCowan subway extension costs more, but you also get:
- saving money by keeping Eglinton East at-grade, and making western extension cheaper as well
- DRL does not need to go up to Eglinton to intercept Scarborough riders
- no 2.5 year shutdown of SRT requiring requiring those people to take buses for that period. I think this would really piss off the 40,000 that ride the SRT every day.
- a N-S trunk line with capacity to spare for Scarborough
And, this is obviously not a material thing, but if they switch again I feel like we destroy the public's trust in government and transit even further than it has been already. Meaning, the public is even more sure that politicians can't make decisions and stick with them. I know that the LRT design and everything is done already, but this will be the perception (even more so than before at least).
Yes the McCowan subway extension costs more, but you also get:
- saving money by keeping Eglinton East at-grade, and making western extension cheaper as well
- DRL does not need to go up to Eglinton to intercept Scarborough riders
- no 2.5 year shutdown of SRT requiring requiring those people to take buses for that period. I think this would really piss off the 40,000 that ride the SRT every day.
- a N-S trunk line with capacity to spare for Scarborough
And, this is obviously not a material thing, but if they switch again I feel like we destroy the public's trust in government and transit even further than it has been already. Meaning, the public is even more sure that politicians can't make decisions and stick with them. I know that the LRT design and everything is done already, but this will be the perception (even more so than before at least).
SJD_Toronto
Active Member
Yes! Agreed with you 100%.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
You also have to wait 10 years.
I also support the SRT corridor for the subway as well. I don't see why we have to tear up McCowan.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
However, if we do use McCowan, there should be a station at eglinton/brimley.
ehlow
Senior Member
Well, let's assume that Olivia Chow is right and the Scar-LRT would open 4 years before the McCowan-Subway.
If you were someone who took the bus from somewhere in Scarborough to STC, then went downtown every day, would you prefer:
A. 10 year wait for the subway, but you can take the SRT during those 10 years
B. 6 year wait for the LRT conversion, and the SRT is shut down for 2.5 years so it's 2.5 years of taking the bus.
If I was in that situation, I'd probably choose A, because of the 2.5 years of bus-taking.
Palma
Senior Member
Why would province say no? They always said its what city council approves and besides it would save them money and would be a way out with them saying "its what the city wants". After all is the province still not in debt and saving this money would hep them out
ehlow
Senior Member
It would certainly be awkward because Mitzie Hunter was a Liberal MPP elected for being a "subway champion" in Scarborough. It was basically vote buying.
Also, based on Steve Munro's comments on his site, the "Scarborough Liberal Caucus" is holding up construction of the Sheppard East LRT.
rbt
Senior Member
It would make the new mayor look like a genius; Toronto still gets the subway and a minimum 3% property tax reduction. A cost overrun, which Toronto is responsible for, could add another 3% to 5% to the property tax bill.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
except it will be an inferior version of the subway that serves nobody well. at least the current iteration has some measurable benefits over the LRT.
rbt
Senior Member
Correct, I still think politically the mayor would win votes over most of the city with a 3% property tax decrease. Particularly if the project cost increases after the EA is complete.
BurlOak
Senior Member
The biggest evidence to disprove this is the Eglinton Crosstown (i.e. the Ford-McGuinty compromise). There was nobody complaining at the time that that plan was not a true HRT subway. Everyone knows when the public says "subway" they mean a grade-separated transit line.
ehlow
Senior Member
I do remember people complaining that it wouldn't use subway vehicles. For example people called into Ford's radio show asking why they would have used light rail vehicles instead of subway vehicles.