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Keep in mind that this plan is completely underground along Eglinton, which is a ridiculous way to implement an LRT. There also would have been no money left over for anything on Finch and Sheppard.
 
Solid Snake said:
All of this could have been avoided with this

urbantoronto-7573-26379.jpg
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Sigh. You're making me nostalgic :p
 
Of all the plans (Underground ECLRT+SRT; Above ground ECLRT + SRT; Above ground ECLRT + Scarborough Subway), I'm probably happiest with the last of the three. It eliminates the transfer and preserves transit on Sheppard and Finch.
 
TOareaFan said:
It is not just your opinion....the very same day that Mayor Ford "won" the subway in Scarborough he stated that he was moving on to make sure that Sheppard East and Finch got subways. Aside from not being justified on its own merit, the Scarborough extension of the B-D is a very dangerous precedent setter.

Declaring that Scarborough residents were no longer "second class" (both provincial and municipal politicians used this language) because the SRT - LRT had been replaced with a subway opens the door for any people anywhere in the city of holding their own reps to that standard...."give me subway or I'll assume you think I am a second class citizen".
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Agreed. I think that's the mentality and that's so sad. Subway are loud, are they prepared for that.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
This plan I could have lived with. What Chow/Soknacki want, no.
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sixrings said:
I too think this plan is decent despite being fords
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Who would have thought that 2 terrible leaders such as Ford and McGuinty, responsible for significant harm to their respective jurisdictions, could come up with such a good plan. The big problem was that Ford was part of that plan and MP's and Councillors concentrated on opposing the plan because of Ford and not because of transit reasons.

sixrings said:
... my only problem with it is that it essentially kills eglinton west...
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Eglinton West could still have worked very well with the F-M (Ford-McGuinty MOU Plan) - it could have easily been extended elevated* through Jane and beyond. The Jane area was written into the MOU.

* - there was no indication that Ford opposed elevated transit - he even supported the monorail at the Portlands.

salsa said:
Keep in mind that this plan is completely underground along Eglinton, which is a ridiculous way to implement an LRT. There also would have been no money left over for anything on Finch and Sheppard.
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The part of the plan that always gets overlooked is the following statement from the MOU:

A new Light Rail transit corridor, firstly along Eglinton Avenue from Jane Street/Black Creek in the west to Kennedy Station in the east, in a tunnel except for short sections in the area of the Don Valley and, potentially, near the Jane Street/Black Creek and Kennedy Stations; and secondly along the existing grade separated 'guideway for the Scarborough RT between Kennedy Station and Scarborough Centre.
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How short where these "short sections"? It was universally agreed the smartest solution was that the LRT would be on the south side through West Don and Leslie - which is about 2.5km from DVP. Thus, it could be assumed that these "short sections" would be 2.5km east and west of DVP and 2.5km west of Kennedy. This means that the MOU allowed for the entire Brentcliffe to Kennedy portion to be built not (necessarily) in a tunnel - which must have meant at-grade in a segregated ROW, or elevated*.

I imagine a lot of people assumed that Stintz and the TTC were looking for a way of reducing the costs of this line (since Ford wanted savings to be used on Sheppard) by exploring means of building parts of the line "not tunnelled". Elevation* was the obvious solution to this, however, Stintz's mayoralty aspirations took over and no such options were explored. This along with Councils dislike of Ford killed the plan proposal.
 
Ford didn't come up with anything. The plan was more Metrolinx and McGunity. The guy doesn't have the brain cells to come up with anything like that.
 
the fully tunnelled Eglinton was a terrible plan. it was a complete waste of money, the current setup is a billion dollars cheaper and a much better setup, much less prone to running overcapacity.
 
Adjei said:
Well Rob Ford now wants to build three subway projects: Finch, Sheppard and DRL. We can't even build one but yet this tool thinks we can somehow build 3.
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The funny thing is that 4 years ago Ford wanted to stop the LRT's and build subways. Looking at the current situation; all 3 LRT's that were on-street are progressing as originally planned and we an additional $1.5B (over-and-above the other costs) is being spent to replace a portion of LRT (that was not interfering with traffic anyway) with a shorter subway extension.
 
salsa said:
Finch was never part of his platform when he got elected. His goal is not to build subways, but rather to make sure no LRT gets built.
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innsertnamehere said:
the fully tunnelled Eglinton was a terrible plan. it was a complete waste of money, the current setup is a billion dollars cheaper and a much better setup, much less prone to running overcapacity.
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The original Eglinton plan from Miller was better then all of these.
 
I'm increasingly agreeing. I sort of decided on the scarborough subway for a while, but now I feel as though I'm going to flip flop again.. either one is fine really. Fords plan was idiotic.
 
Basically, the original continuous through-run ECLRT + SRT plan eliminated the transfer and avoided a huge amount of money wasted on subway where the LRT would have accomplished largely the same goals. Although I can see the utility and the satisfaction in finally connecting Scarborough Centre to the subway network, a single line from STC to Mt. Dennis (and hopefully extended west to the airport) would have been far better. Plus the lack of running up to Sheppard would've avoided the cannibalizing of Sheppard East's ridership.

I sincerely would have preferred that the plan for SRT replaced by LRT would never have changed, but now that it has, I can't agree with Chow and Soknacki that the issue should be reopened. Funding is in place for the BD extension; let's get ahead and build it.

Also regarding Chow and Soknacki's plan, I don't think they're considering a continuous ECLRT + SRT, are they?
 
^ A continuous ECLRT + SRT will require full grade-separated Eglinton East which is a nontrivial additional cost; about $2 billion for going underground, although it can be less than that if some sections are elevated. Plus, such configuration is going to shift a lot of riders from Danforth subway to Eglinton, and risk overwhelming Yonge between Eglinton and Bloor.

"Plus the lack of running up to Sheppard would've avoided the cannibalizing of Sheppard East's ridership." I can't agree with this statement. If the riders, given a choice, prefer to go south or south-west instead of staying on Sheppard and going west - then they must not be forced to go west by the lack of southern connection. Sheppard route should be left for those who actually needs to travel west.
 
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