TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Interesting... Tory may be planning on having Council fight out a tough decision, rather than make one himself. Will Tory even advocate for SSE when it reaches Council again?
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Interesting... Tory may be planning on having Council fight out a tough decision, rather than make one himself. Will Tory even advocate for SSE when it reaches Council again?
crs1026
Superstar
Bingo.
I took his speech about "all three parties have agreed" as merely intended to keep the Province and Ottawa from walking away in dusgust. He needs their money in play. He will have a harder time walking away from Smarttrack - its his signature idea - but he can let Council take the heat for any incremental expense on SSE. He also takes the moral high ground if he appears to take the report seriously - leaving the details to the staff experts.
- Paul
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
So regardless of what Council decides (including possible cancellation of SSE), Tory can say he had nothing to do with it.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Well, I suppose one votes for a mayor to make non-decisions. The mark of leadership, I tell ya.
AoD
I still maintain that this is his way of implementing the decision that makes the most sense (a GO RER spur) without looking like he's abandoning the Scarborough Subway. He's basically allowing city staff to create a Straw Man Subway for him, so that he can refute it without taking too much heat (and possibly even being applauded for it).
salsa
Senior Member
Says the guy who ignored the advice of experts on tearing down the Gardiner.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Even non-decisions are decisions with implications.
If he goes for the 'surface-subway' solution of a spur line, that would be some serious Machiavellian maneuvering.
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I wonder if we can get the idea of a SmartTrack spur line in social media. Maybe a thread about it on the Toronto subreddit, the Toronto media and politicos do follow the subreddit page.
I've tweeted some stuff about it, and I'd be happy to write something up for it if someone wants to post it somewhere. I've been a big supporter of that option for a while now, and I want it to get as much exposure as possible, so that average people (not just transit geeks) actually consider it a valid option.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
We will see if he would even refute it (not to mention, it's questionable whether it is his to refute, given the amount of provincial support vs. the non-action over Smartrak)
Of course a non-decision is a position - just one that is essentially opportunistic, minimizes the use of political capital and not necessary one that is intended to shape opinions - in other words, the antithesis of leadership. We will see whether the province allows him to go for a surface-subway solution vis-a-vis the BD extension, and the pushback from the Fraud crowd.
AoD
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aquateam
Active Member
+1
Although I would consider an eastern extension of Sheppard to be a "Scarborough subway".
City staff seem to be pretty good at producing reports that make one option stand out. The McCowan option is really the only viable one. Midland is immediately adjacent to SmartTrack/GO (why was this shortlisted and not Brimley?!), and Bellamy is circuitous and consequently over half a billion more expensive. McCowan actually has some redevelopment potential with the McCowan precinct plan.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The McCowan option is NOT a viable option, due to low ridership, according to Toronto Star reporters who've seen reports. The only viable option is Bellamy, at a cost of $600 Million over what we've budgeted, bringing to total to $4.1 Billion.
I think it would go something like this: "City Staff have indicated that the only option that does not have its ridership cannibalized by SmartTrack has a cost increase of over $600 million. Council has spoken and said that this increase is not acceptable. As a result, I'm proposing that the SRT right-of-way be used to construct a SmartTrack spur, connecting to STC, Centennial, and Malvern. This option would give surface subway access to larger portions of Scarborough than the subway option that Council rejected, and would fit within the existing funding envelope."
Also, the Province seems to be pretty gung ho about RER, so I don't think they'd object to another line being added to the system, especially if it's already using existing funding. For the Feds, it's an election year, so pulling funding from Toronto wouldn't be a good move for a place they're trying to make in-roads.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Good lord. How different could the ridership estimates between McCowan and Bellamy possibly be?
I'd still like to see an estimate for the reusing the SRT alignment option.
I'd still like to see an estimate for the reusing the SRT alignment option.
crs1026
Superstar
Well, the problem with the last guy was his lack of respect for the consensus of council. And the result was a council that couldn't work together on anything. So yeah, I'd say this is leadership.....provided at some point he is transparent about where ne is trying to steer things and maintains integrity about his own efforts to steer, particularly in the back rooms.
At the end of the day, we want Council to feel accountable for this decision.
- Paul
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I made a comment in TigerMaster's recent thread on the Toronto Subreddit about the idea of the SmartTrack spur and seemed to have gotten a positive reaction thus far. The Toronto subreddit is very pro-LRT so you would have to convince them that the spur option is a superior option to not just the proposed subway but also the LRT.
If we can get it upvoted to the front page and convince enough people this is the way out of the Scarborough Subway predicament (the Surface Subway solution to Scarborough), hopefully it would get the attention of some people.
It would be nice to do something more than just being an armchair transit planner for once.
