[drum118]

The real NIMBY problem is people like you who fight to and rise up & protest fair investment in Toronto's neglected suburbs. This nonsense has gone beyond absurd and does nothing to help this City grow.

Your point is completely irrelevant regarding STC? Have you ever even looked around the corner for from most subway current stops? ... Many are surrounded by bungalows (or recently torn down ones for a taller detached home) and other regular detached housing. The surrounding area around STC is actually easier to develop than most of the current subway stops outside of downtown & no one is even complaining about high rise development.

This really doesn't even make sense and adds nothing but continue to troll the debate with divisive jargon.

In fact, if one walks east from Broadview to Main, you will see the street decline as you walk it. Main Area is seeing more development these days. Most buildings are 2 story and the fall off point of decline starts at Pape from my point of view. It completely fall off east of Victoria.

Bloor west of Spadina is about 2-3 story and more busy than Danforth. There are various sections that have high buildings near the stations. West of Jane falls off for a number of reasons, but its more healthy than the east.

As noted STC was to be a major hub like North York, but both are decades behind from where they should be with a lot of room to grow. Scarborough is a young area, yet it has been built poorly to other areas even though there are pockets old area that are single homes. Even the Malvern area is low density today considering it was to have rail in the 80's and on course to have it until Ford came to power.

If people and areas are not willing to accept higher density, then they have to accept investment in their area will be low along with poor transit service. At the same time, they must pay more to maintain that life quality that will pay for the maintaining of existing infrastructure and service. If you got 10,000 people paying say $20 million for everything, that a huge hit on the pocket book. Now if you got 40,000 paying that same $20 million, that a nice saving in the pocket.

At some point X service has to stop as its not cost effected to carry it further and is down graded to X service that is more effected to go further. In many places that high quality of service people want will never surface due to the various cost to build, operate and maintain it. Moreso, the ridership is not or will never be there in the first place.

What gets me after writing something, Councilor Thompson and Glen De Baeremaeker, both Scarborough councilors who sat on TTC Commission before Ford came to office, had the chance to have the subway built to STC at a cost of $1 Billion to replace the SRT, but voted against it. They thought the LRT was the way to go. Years later, who lead the charge to put the subway plan on the table after Ford came to power?? That $1 Billion subway is now close to $3 Billion.

 

[bill r]

What gets me after writing something, Councilor Thompson and Glen De Baeremaeker, both Scarborough councilors who sat on TTC Commission before Ford came to office, had the chance to have the subway built to STC at a cost of $1 Billion to replace the SRT, but voted against it.

I'm old enough to remember Transportation Minister Murray, offer to build a two stop subway to STC for free. A month later Council votes the three stop to Sheppard for $3.56 billion and a special tax levy.

As an aside, I think a good arterial road network is important for economic development. McCowan is big in Markham but goes nowhere in Scarborough. STC is on the 401 but landlocked for car access on all other sides. The rich and powerful use cars and have no access to the STC.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Are you three years old?

 

[bill r]

Are you three years old?

It really feels so long ago, besides are we there yet - rapid transit for Scarborough?
(I'm truly an old dodger, so I use the expression a lot.)

 

[W. K. Lis]

It really feels so long ago, besides are we there yet - rapid transit for Scarborough?
(I'm truly an old dodger, so I use the expression a lot.)

Just how old are you?

This old? See link.

 

[bill r]

Just how old

I'll be long gone before there is any rapid transit in Scarborough.
69 years,

 

[Palma]

Scarborough MPP Brad Duguid makes it clear that the province intends to build the subway no matter what, says questions about the Scarborough subway are unwarranted. “Regardless of the constant assault on this project, it’s absolutely a solid project and absolutely needed. The critics, it’s time for them to take a rest.” He also called Scarborough Centre “one of the fastest growing city centres in Canada” (Lol).

cause its in his riding, Then have the province built in and be responsible for any over-runs. The province is giving 1/3 just like the federal gov't gave 1/3. I doubt if the city decides not to do the subway that the federal gov't will take away the 1/3

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'll be long gone before there is any rapid transit in Scarborough.
69 years,

Ahh so you're actually 14.

 

[bill r]

salsa said: ↑
Scarborough MPP Brad Duguid makes it clear that the province intends to build the subway no matter what, says questions about the Scarborough subway are unwarranted. “Regardless of the constant assault on this project, it’s absolutely a solid project and absolutely needed. The critics, it’s time for them to take a rest.” He also called Scarborough Centre “one of the fastest growing city centres in Canada”

cause its in his riding, Then have the province built in and be responsible for any over-runs. The province is giving 1/3 just like the federal gov't gave 1/3. I doubt if the city decides not to do the subway that the federal gov't will take away the 1/3

For me Duguid can't affect the subway.
Toronto City Council in Oct 2013 voted to spend $3.56 B(illion) for 3 stop subway to Sheppard.
One stop subway to cost $2 B
$3.56 B - $2 B = $1.56 B saving to the city.

It seems to me that Duguid threw in $1.46 B to extend the Crosstown LRT from Kennedy to UoTSC - a Metrolinx project.

The LRT stuff reduces Eglinton and Kingston Rd to 4 lanes which will jam up Lawrence and St. Clair. The traffic congestion will discourage any economic development. They should spend money to bury the LRT.

 

[coffey1]

Until Toronto begins to take a serious interest in investing in its suburbs many businesses are certainly going to look at the areas outside of the City which can provide better tax incentives and accessible transportation to commuters. Forget about our Suburbs even being close to a priority, Toronto has done little to nothing to help these areas attract business or become successful bedroom commuter communities since amalgamation.

Yet the 905 Suburbs have seen sold growth & rejuvenation with businesses popping up around their highways corridors. Someone here asked why Mississauga is doing so well compared to Scarborough. In addition to having focused plans for investment the 905 Cities have ensured they invest in the best transit solutions available to them. Scarborough only has the 401 Highway but Mississauga has the 401, 403, QEW, and slightly the 410... And a new fancy properly designed LRT line on the away . And it was asked about Markham & Vaughan... Both are attracting business and investment around their 407 Highway as well as the 404, 400 & the fancy BRT on #7 which will connect seamlessly to Vaughan's SUBWAY down the road. They have & CONTINUE to invest in moving people around. They have plans to build attractive projects that is more than just transit to attract investment in their City's.

For good reason Toronto made the decision to stop building highways In our inner Suburbs which wouldn't be bad at all if we had been integrating them into Toronto's main transit network in a fair manner. Unfortunately we have a vocal, powerful Political group in this City mainly from public transit rich areas that continue to oppose & fight against an integrated, fair solution to this problem. Our suburbs are handcuffed and deteriorating as there is no urgency to provide the quality of investment that could attract business or make transit attractive & efficient for commuters to reach the main job core downtown. If we take pride and do this right at this time Toronto will be united and have a chance to flourish into the future

Needless to say there has been a serious lack of quality investment from our Governments that has led to this stagnation. Its time to stop playing the blame game & move forward with a much higher priority, less talk, more urgency & respect. The inner Toronto suburbs are not the 905 & need to be seamlessly integrated to Toronto to have any chance

 

[Adjei]

salsa said: ↑
Scarborough MPP Brad Duguid makes it clear that the province intends to build the subway no matter what, says questions about the Scarborough subway are unwarranted. “Regardless of the constant assault on this project, it’s absolutely a solid project and absolutely needed. The critics, it’s time for them to take a rest.” He also called Scarborough Centre “one of the fastest growing city centres in Canada”


For me Duguid can't affect the subway.
Toronto City Council in Oct 2013 voted to spend $3.56 B(illion) for 3 stop subway to Sheppard.
One stop subway to cost $2 B
$3.56 B - $2 B = $1.56 B saving to the city.

It seems to me that Duguid threw in $1.46 B to extend the Crosstown LRT from Kennedy to UoTSC - a Metrolinx project.

The LRT stuff reduces Eglinton and Kingston Rd to 4 lanes which will jam up Lawrence and St. Clair. The traffic congestion will discourage any economic development. They should spend money to bury the LRT.

The original plan was for the SRT to be converted to an LRT which the province was funding 100%. Toronto was not funding anything. When the decision was made to change to a subway, the cost went up and the federal government decided to contribute $660 million and Toronto funding the rest which amounts to about 1 billion. So even if the suwbay is shortened and the savings used for the Eglinton LRT, the province is still contributing about 1.48 billion which is more than what the city is contributing so Duguid has a point.

 

[bill r]

...if the suwbay is shortened and the savings used for the Eglinton LRT, the province is still contributing about 1.48 billion which is more than what the city is contributing

The subway is a City project.
The LRT is a provincial project.
No part of the the subway budget mixes with the LRT budget.
The added cost of the LRT extension is totally funded by the Province.

The City Planners accepted the Province's offer of the extended LRT.
They never explained why it was necessary to drop the two subway stations.
At all public sessions, there has always been speakers advocating for the importance of the Lawrence East subway station. No one has defended the removal of it.
The City Planners have said that SmartTrack will provide rapid transit access to the Lawrence bus riders after the SRT is removed. They never mention that SmartTrack only comes every 8.6 minutes and there could be an extra fee to ride the Metrolinx train.

 

[coffey1]

The subway is a City project.
The LRT is a provincial project.
No part of the the subway budget mixes with the LRT budget.
The added cost of the LRT extension is totally funded by the Province.

The City Planners accepted the Province's offer of the extended LRT.
They never explained why it was necessary to drop the two subway stations.
At all public sessions, there has always been speakers advocating for the importance of the Lawrence East subway station. No one has defended the removal of it.
The City Planners have said that SmartTrack will provide rapid transit access to the Lawrence bus riders after the SRT is removed. They never mention that SmartTrack only comes every 8.6 minutes and there could be an extra fee to ride the Metrolinx train.

The removal of the Lawrence stop is likely a temporary measure to get let the Downtown Left feel like they have a moral victory in this over exhausted battle against Scarborough. Assuming the McCowan corridor moves forward a stop on Lawrence will be quite easily restored. You can also see that Smartrack has proposed the option D which leaves out the Lawrence stop so this is obviously being discussed.

If this is the tactic to try to get construction started than so be it. But if they are proposing the one stop extension with any attempt to weaken the debate than they likely just raised transit holy war in this City. I'll give Tory the benefit of the doubt its not what he's looking to achieve whatsoever.

 

[jcam]

The subway is a City project.
The LRT is a provincial project.

The interesting wrinkle is that Metrolinx is going to be holding the money for the studies of both of the DRL and the Line 1 extension. It begs the question of who will 'own' those projects down the road.

 

[bill r]

The removal of the Lawrence stop is likely a temporary measure

There was a request to estimate the cost of a "rough-in" for the Lawrence station.
Turns out it depends on the definition of "rough-in".
Making a flat part in the tunnel for a station is cheap but there will be considerably more cost to build the station later and at the risk of closing the line.
Then the problem is any other kind of "rough-in" comes to 60-70% of the cost of building the station.