[officedweller]

MKIIIs now in service on Vancouver's Expo Line.

http://www.cknw.com/2016/08/18/new-expo-line-train-to-improve-passenger-comfort-and-capacity/

http://www.news1130.com/2016/08/18/new-skytrain-cars-coming-to-expo-line/

Here's a tour:

Mark III set 401-404 was at Stadium-Chinatown Station this afternoon... what a beauty.

 

[coffey1]

We can review those other technologies down the road when we look to branch out from the subway(s) to SCC.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Scarborough Centre is an INNER Suburb within the City of Toronto. Just like North York Center, Just like Islington in Etobicoke. It makes absolute sense to be connected to the main TTC trunk

While the OUTTER suburbs of Vaughan & Richmond hill are controlled by very wealthy Political powers which seem to have the ability to make their building dreams come true. Toronto needs to stop fighting internally and start building.

We need to start lobbying for the DRL, SSE, Sheppard Subways, & LRT/BRT feeders and build a great network.

The minority Political special interest groups promoted by bickering media which is throwing the same tantrums against paying for integration does nothing to move the City forward. The whole public transit thing costs a lot of money so we need to do it right. Forcing our biggest inner Suburban Center in the City to be frugal, while other inner suburban Centers have subway, & outer suburban Centers add subway, more highways, in addition to BRT & LRT is unacceptable.

We have really done a lot wrong with planning, revitalizing and promoting our inner suburbs in Toronto. This needs to stop & we need have urgency for many differing needs. Not just me vs. them. LRT vs. Subway. Its attention to details.

Mr. Tory seems to have steadied the ship through hard Politics to a point we can finally start moving forward with better planning. It seems he had been hinting at coming out to tackle tax increases for Capital projects. Which is long overdue and hopefully he doesn't shy away. It really is time to get on and move forward.

But the main TTC trunk will be Eglinton and not bloor after the Crosstown. But you missed the point yet again. I said none of these subways were ultimately justifiable. And they aren't, especially York Region but here we are.

 

[ssiguy2]

Those MK111 trains look great but clearly not "world class" enough for Torontonians.

 

[robmausser]

MKIIIs now in service on Vancouver's Expo Line.

http://www.cknw.com/2016/08/18/new-expo-line-train-to-improve-passenger-comfort-and-capacity/

http://www.news1130.com/2016/08/18/new-skytrain-cars-coming-to-expo-line/

Here's a tour:

What a shame.

With some engineering modifications to the current RT track, we could have these beauties on the existing RT running right now, and an extension to Cenntenial College and Malvern, all for a fraction of the cost of the subway or LRT, and without disrupting service on the existing RT for 3 years like the LRT conversion would have.

Too bad Miller, Ford, and now Tory have to try to create legacies for themselves and disrupt proper transit planning.

 

[Voltz]

What a shame.

With some engineering modifications to the current RT track, we could have these beauties on the existing RT running right now, and an extension to Cenntenial College and Malvern, all for a fraction of the cost of the subway or LRT, and without disrupting service on the existing RT for 3 years like the LRT conversion would have.

Too bad Miller, Ford, and now Tory have to try to create legacies for themselves and disrupt proper transit planning.

I don't get where this idea that using RT technology for the SRT refurbishment and extension would have been substantially cheaper than the LRT plan. The line itself would have had very little difference either way, it was even planned and designed as an RT line before they decided to switch to LRT. An RT line would have even required another yard.

 

[dowlingm]

Those MK111 trains look great but clearly not "world class" enough for Torontonians.

Let's put down 10cm of snow and see how they do.

 

[cplchanb]

I don't get where this idea that using RT technology for the SRT refurbishment and extension would have been substantially cheaper than the LRT plan. The line itself would have had very little difference either way, it was even planned and designed as an RT line before they decided to switch to LRT. An RT line would have even required another yard.

well for starters on top of the new cars they would have to decommission and rip up all the elevated sections, then widen the corridor roads, new stations, new trackwork and everything associated with it. Not to mention the 10%+/- corruption fee and union dues as with all city projects. At least with RT the core infrastructure is there. Sure there needs to be modifications to the line and stations but at least one does not need to start from scratch and risk other unforeseen extras.

Let's put down 10cm of snow and see how they do.

They can easily install snowmelting lines/conduits along the track as seen in many of the station platforms (albeit cast in slab). Or they can put a snow plow car on the line

 

[aquateam]

Can we fantasize about removing roads? I'd erase Lake Shore from the Humber to the Don. Or at least reduce the number of lanes and speed limit.

I imagine a defensive motorist responding to that by fantasizing about removing the Spadina line and using/expanding the tunnel for the never-completed Spadina expressway.

I don't get where this idea that using RT technology for the SRT refurbishment and extension would have been substantially cheaper than the LRT plan. The line itself would have had very little difference either way, it was even planned and designed as an RT line before they decided to switch to LRT. An RT line would have even required another yard.

People believe that the RT technology would be substantially cheaper because:
1) As you said, it was planned and designed as an RT line. There is much less risk and uncertainty involved with upgrading the existing system than with conversion.
2) The cost estimate for refurbishment was estimated at $360 million (2006 dollars) compared to $2.9 billion (2016 dollars) for the LRT. I know there has been some construction inflation in 10 years but I doubt it's a factor of 10.
3) The LRT plan involves rebuilding the Ellesmere tunnel which is too small for LRT. I tried to find a detailed breakdown of the costs, from this post from Steve Munro, but the link to the city report is broken.

 

[robmausser]

I don't get where this idea that using RT technology for the SRT refurbishment and extension would have been substantially cheaper than the LRT plan. The line itself would have had very little difference either way, it was even planned and designed as an RT line before they decided to switch to LRT. An RT line would have even required another yard.

You don't have to get the truth for it to be true.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tr...nd-modernize-the-srt-says-transit-expert.html

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...lect-of-scarborough-rt-is-shameful-james.html

 

[Voltz]

I imagine a defensive motorist responding to that by fantasizing about removing the Spadina line and using/expanding the tunnel for the never-completed Spadina expressway.



People believe that the RT technology would be substantially cheaper because:
1) As you said, it was planned and designed as an RT line. There is much less risk and uncertainty involved with upgrading the existing system than with conversion.
2) The cost estimate for refurbishment was estimated at $360 million (2006 dollars) compared to $2.9 billion (2016 dollars) for the LRT. I know there has been some construction inflation in 10 years but I doubt it's a factor of 10.
3) The LRT plan involves rebuilding the Ellesmere tunnel which is too small for LRT. I tried to find a detailed breakdown of the costs, from this post from Steve Munro, but the link to the city report is broken.

The main difference either way would have been the power distribution, over head wires or third/forth rail. Neither way is anything new in Toronto, nor would the cost between either technology be noticeable. Everything else was more or less the same, so where could this large cost difference come from, I'm fairly certain it was mentioned that they would have had to replace the tunnel north of Ellesmere for the new RT as well.

That $360 million cost did not include the extension, which would have been the majority of the expense, and was probably just a preliminary cost estimate.

 

[dowlingm]

You don't have to get the truth for it to be true.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tr...nd-modernize-the-srt-says-transit-expert.html

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...lect-of-scarborough-rt-is-shameful-james.html

That graphic does not address the fact that the Mark II/III vehicles are larger and could not be operated through the tunnel. The only way capital cost came in that low is with the purchase of second hand Mark Is, for which Vancouver wanted Toronto to pay the cost of brand new Mark IIs as replacements.

 

[coffey1]

Maybe we give Vancouver its own thread? Similar technology, not similar circumstances

The cost of building the subway is the cost of connecting its largest suburban Centre to the same infrastructure TORONTO built to other main core and similar suburban Centres. The cost is what it is. This isn't Vancouver.

 

[robmausser]

That graphic does not address the fact that the Mark II/III vehicles are larger and could not be operated through the tunnel. The only way capital cost came in that low is with the purchase of second hand Mark Is, for which Vancouver wanted Toronto to pay the cost of brand new Mark IIs as replacements.

if you read the news articles this turns out to be a falsehood pushed by Millers team for the LRT conversion.

The $360 million and the 8 month downtime includes the cost of rebuilding the tunnels to fit Mark 2/3's

 

[pman]

Maybe we give Vancouver its own thread? Similar technology, not similar circumstances

The cost of building the subway is the cost of connecting its largest suburban Centre to the same infrastructure TORONTO built to other main core and similar suburban Centres. The cost is what it is. This isn't Vancouver.

And apparently the fact that it's in Scarborough means nobody has the right to question whether this enormous cost is justified by the meagre incremental ridership without hysterical allegations that they hate the suburbs.