[cplchanb]

Travel to the core can be quicker, if (and that's a big IF) the transfer between the TTC and GO/RER and SmartTrack is free or at the very least at a discount, and convenient.

UHH..no...that makes it cheaper...not nec quicker..... completely different topics of discussion. Actually it possibly may have an opposite effect. cheaper= more people= more jams in RH= higher chance of missing the train=lost time

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That's the reason I think he won't tender anything related to TTC.

I expect to see some movement on RER (much slower than Wynne but still progress), a tax break like a 1% HST reduction, and something significant on the hydro file like buying their way out of existing contracts. Scarborough has been satisfied with studies so far and they will be for his first term too; too much money for a couple seats.

I'd like to be wrong on this but I'm sure not going to buy real-estate at Vic Park & Sheppard with the hopes of riding a subway to it within a decade.

With the cost of construction rising astronomically, I really don't see any movement on Sheppard East for a very long time. Not until the price of building materials comes down. The cost of the SSE nearly doubled, and they're still expecting the prices to increase up to another $1 Billion on that project. Cost of Gardiner East also increased by $1 Billion. Now imagine how expensive Sheppard East would be, which would have more stations and is longer.

He'll cave because it will cost less then not doing it and defending himself in 2022.

Seems like the writing is on the wall about the Scarborough subway connecting to a future Sheppard Line extension. It goes beyond PC vs. Liberals. LOTS of liberals within the cabinet wants Sheppard subway East built as well.

LRT would have had way more support and less opposition if delivering speed was a priority when they came up with Sheppard LRT. Look at how Metrolinx is trying to speed up travel time between Mt.Dennis and Pearson by grade separating as much as they can. Funny how there was never any initiative to speed up Sheppard East nor Eglinton East. People called "bull" on the rapid transit title and quickly demanded subway instead.

It's council and TTC doing. Speed the LRT lines or you deserve the LRT backlash

If that was the only reason, the SELRT would be in revenue service already. This was about the transfer at Don Mills and complaints about the rest of the city. Which is why I want it done so we can move on.

 

[amnesiajune]

Look at how Metrolinx is trying to speed up travel time between Mt.Dennis and Pearson by grade separating as much as they can. Funny how there was never any initiative to speed up Sheppard East nor Eglinton East.

That has more to do with the train frequencies that are planned for Go Transit. It's not very feasible to have at-grade crossings on major roads when a train is going to be using them every 4-8 minutes during rush hour, and every 8-10 minutes off-peak.

UHH..no...that makes it cheaper...not nec quicker..... completely different topics of discussion.

It makes it quicker for the vast majority of people who aren't willing to spend the extra $5.00 to take the train, but would gladly do so (and make their trips much quicker) if it was a free transfer or the extra cost was negligible.

 

[Cobra]

If that was the only reason, the SELRT would be in revenue service already. This was about the transfer at Don Mills and complaints about the rest of the city. Which is why I want it done so we can move on.

The transfer was actually very convenient. It was like Lionel-Groulx in Montreal where commuters would be underground and walk across the plateform. The issue was mainly speed and too many stops slowing it down. 40 minutes from Morningside to Don Mills is unacceptable. Also, it's not like the city ever did the whole "priority signal" the right way.

They should have extended the subway to Victoria Park as the cost of the tunnel was similar and drop unnecessary stops while having buses for local stops. Grade separating whenever possible at a reasonable price would have helped too. Heaters on at every stops? We'd be having a different discussion if the Miller team gave a F***.

 

[Voltz]

They should have extended the subway to Victoria Park as the cost of the tunnel was similar and drop unnecessary stops while having buses for local stops. Grade separating whenever possible at a reasonable price would have helped too. Heaters on at every stops? We'd be having a different discussion if the Miller team gave a F***.

The cost of building the Subway to Victoria Park was not similar to the cost of the underground section of the LRT, they said it would have cost the same as the entire LRT line.

And I think people were mainly against the LRT mainly because it was not a subway, increasing its operating speed would have done little. Just like people were irrationaly against the completely grade separated, with subway style stations. longer and cheaper SLRT.

 

[BurlOak]

It should have been:

1. A continuous grade-separated (i.e. rapid) transit line from Malvern to ECLRT to Pearson.
2. A DRL long subway (i.e. rapid) to Seneca.
3. A Sheppard subway (i.e. rapid) interlined with Spadina north and south.
4. An on-street (i.e. semi-local) SELRT connected with the SMLRT

#1 would be a rapid transit line that connects to B-D, Markham GO (RER), DRL, Yonge, Barrie GO, Spadina, Brampton/YYZ GO, and YYZ/Corporate Centre
#2 connects Seneca, Sheppard Subway, ECLRT, Downtown (Yonge and University).
#3 connects Don Mills with York U, Vaughan, Yorkdale, Downtown.
#4 would still be a bit slow, but connects to DRL & Sheppard at one end and B-D & ECLRT at other end, with ECLRT (the Malvern to Kennedy "diagonal") in the middle. One transfer and people can get to almost any destination they choose.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The underground part was looked at being a subway extension, but I believe they went with the LRT as they determined more trips would end at Don Mills and Consumers on the LRT than at Consumers and Victoria Park on the subway. I.E. less people would be inconvenienced on the LRT. This would only become more true if the DRL ever ends up getting to Sheppard.

 

[BurlOak]

And I think people were mainly against the LRT mainly because it was not a subway, increasing its operating speed would have done little. Just like people were irrationaly against the completely grade separated, with subway style stations. longer and cheaper SLRT.

The only (overwhelming) reason this was not supported was the forced transfer at Kennedy.
When the Ford-McGuinty compromise suggested that SLRT be connected with ECLRT, there were no more complaints about the SLRT portion.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The transfer was actually very convenient. It was like Lionel-Groulx in Montreal where commuters would be underground and walk across the plateform. The issue was mainly speed and too many stops slowing it down. 40 minutes from Morningside to Don Mills is unacceptable. Also, it's not like the city ever did the whole "priority signal" the right way.

They should have extended the subway to Victoria Park as the cost of the tunnel was similar and drop unnecessary stops while having buses for local stops. Grade separating whenever possible at a reasonable price would have helped too. Heaters on at every stops? We'd be having a different discussion if the Miller team gave a F***.

I agree, but remember most of the subway stations don't have heaters as well. Regardless I would just like both these subways completed so we can move on.

It should have been:

1. A continuous grade-separated (i.e. rapid) transit line from Malvern to ECLRT to Pearson.
2. A DRL long subway (i.e. rapid) to Seneca.
3. A Sheppard subway (i.e. rapid) interlined with Spadina north and south.
4. An on-street (i.e. semi-local) SELRT connected with the SMLRT

#1 would be a rapid transit line that connects to B-D, Markham GO (RER), DRL, Yonge, Barrie GO, Spadina, Brampton/YYZ GO, and YYZ/Corporate Centre
#2 connects Seneca, Sheppard Subway, ECLRT, Downtown (Yonge and University).
#3 connects Don Mills with York U, Vaughan, Yorkdale, Downtown.
#4 would still be a bit slow, but connects to DRL & Sheppard at one end and B-D & ECLRT at other end, with ECLRT (the Malvern to Kennedy "diagonal") in the middle. One transfer and people can get to almost any destination they choose.

The only (overwhelming) reason this was not supported was the forced transfer at Kennedy.
When the Ford-McGuinty compromise suggested that SLRT be connected with ECLRT, there were no more complaints about the SLRT portion.

Agreed BurlOak, but council had other ideas.

 

[BurlOak]

I wonder how many of those Councillors were "useful idiots" and how many were

When The Ford-McGuinty compromise was cancelled in early 2012, most suspected that it was the beginning of something bad. Especially when a few months later, Stintz and Glen DeBaermaker came up the OneCity B-D extension.

The result of that vote to cancel the connected Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown was:

1. The B-D extension
2. The DRL being delayed and cut short at Danforth
3. Continued discussion of the Sheppard East Subway

Now did the Councillors and backroom MPP's plan on this to happen? Was it an unintended (but still predictable) consequence, or was it known collateral damage in the quest to defeat Ford. The public didn't seem to mind as all Councillors were re-elected and the Liberals got a majority. It is the transit starved citizens who wound up suffering.

 

[kEiThZ]

The transfer was actually very convenient. It was like Lionel-Groulx in Montreal where commuters would be underground and walk across the plateform. The issue was mainly speed and too many stops slowing it down. 40 minutes from Morningside to Don Mills is unacceptable. Also, it's not like the city ever did the whole "priority signal" the right way.

They should have extended the subway to Victoria Park as the cost of the tunnel was similar and drop unnecessary stops while having buses for local stops. Grade separating whenever possible at a reasonable price would have helped too. Heaters on at every stops? We'd be having a different discussion if the Miller team gave a F***.

Just spend the god damn extra and convert Sheppard to LRT and make it a through service. Also makes it a tad cheaper to go west if they want to continue on surface past Downsview.

I can't believe the choice is subway or LRT with transfer.

 

[amnesiajune]

Just spend the god damn extra and convert Sheppard to LRT and make it a through service.

If it was that easy then someone would've proposed it. It's not. Even if the current tunnels are big enough for the LRT trains, you'd probably have to rebuild or drastically renovate all of the stations so they can have lower platforms (including one station that needs to keep operating on the platform below the subway), rip out and replace all of the tracks in the tunnels (the LRTs have a different track gauge than the subway trains), and install an overhead wire and get rid of the third rail. That isn't gonna be cheap - I'd bet that it's cheaper to extend the Sheppard subway to STC and Downsview than to rebuild it as a light rail subway.

 

[CapitalSeven]

I'd bet that it's cheaper to extend the Sheppard subway to STC and Downsview than to rebuild it as a light rail subway.

That's just nonsense.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If it was that easy then someone would've proposed it. It's not. Even if the current tunnels are big enough for the LRT trains, you'd probably have to rebuild or drastically renovate all of the stations so they can have lower platforms (including one station that needs to keep operating on the platform below the subway), rip out and replace all of the tracks in the tunnels (the LRTs have a different track gauge than the subway trains), and install an overhead wire and get rid of the third rail. That isn't gonna be cheap - I'd bet that it's cheaper to extend the Sheppard subway to STC and Downsview than to rebuild it as a light rail subway.

The TTC priced that several years ago and said it would cost under $1 Billion, if I'm remembering correctly. It's most certainly not impossible. However the estimation is seveal years old, and like with all infrastructure projects, I expect the cost has escalated quite substantially since then.

 

[amnesiajune]

That's just nonsense.

Says who?

The TTC priced that several years ago and said it would cost under $1 Billion, if I'm remembering correctly.

Metrolinx did a study of the link between the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs, and found an extra cost of $1.3 billion for a continuous LRT through the subway tunnel compared to an LRT to Don Mills and another to Finch & Yonge.

The main problem, at least judging from what's strongly implied in the report, is that they only looked at the cost of retrofitting the stations. But the Eglinton LRT tunnel is larger than the Sheppard Subway tunnel - 5.75 meter diameter on Eglinton versus 5.2 meters on Sheppard. So the TTC would need to either find a way to use the existing Sheppard Subway tunnels and rails (and in all likelihood end up with an orphan system) or make the 5.5 km tunnel slightly larger and replace more than 11 km of tracks and power supply. I doubt the TTC can do either of those for less than a billion dollars. And there's also the cost of closing down the Sheppard Subway for at least a year or two so that the changes can be made.