sixrings
Senior Member
Wait is the new pro subway argument that we've gone this far and it will cost so much to cancel it and revert to LRT. Why didn't cancelling fees mean anything when we were cancelling LRT contracts?
There's rumour of more 'hidden' reports yet to be released but applied for under FOI by some journalists.Wait is the new pro subway argument that we've gone this far and it will cost so much to cancel it and revert to LRT. Why didn't cancelling fees mean anything when we were cancelling LRT contracts?
And pigs fly...That just proves the LRT option has sufficient capacity, i.e. subway is not mandatory to handle the demand. That's a common knowledge anyway.
Doesn't mean the subway extension is not desirable. It is popular, it is affordable, so it will be built.
You missed the other option. We can plan for a subway, including discussions of various restructurings to make it possible (like McGuinty's promise to upload the subway capital to the province for accounting purposes) AND continue to abuse the SRT as is until some structural engineer orders it closed to be replaced by buses via a cobbled together BRT.
In short, after 12 years of the subway option being on the table, through 3 mayors and 3 premiers, nobody has actually stepped forward with full funding. We're already 3 years past the original deadline; every politician at the table is clearly asking themselves if they can delay spending outside of their current term and the answer thus far has been yes they can.
I do hope that changes and Line 2 gets uploaded to the province, new signalling system, new rolling stock, and the extension. I'm certainly not banking my personal livelihood on it coming through anytime soon though.
And pigs fly...
And of course, contrary to at least one poster's claim, no committed funding. What's been committed so far is contingent on the City coming up with one third. The Province, contrary to Ford's Pharts, would like nothing better than to pull that commitment back. And then the Feds will too, or more likely, push a more rational proposal, along with private capital.
That just proves the LRT option has sufficient capacity, i.e. subway is not mandatory to handle the demand. That's a common knowledge anyway. Doesn't mean the subway extension is not desirable. It is popular, it is affordable, so it will be built.
So let's see...A Premier who campaigned on tax cuts, slashing the deficit and debt, not catering to "the elites"...and you think it likely that the Tooth Fairy is going to pledge to fund $Bs in extra costs, let alone the City's share, to build a subway when you yourself admit: "That just proves the LRT option has sufficient capacity, i.e. subway is not mandatory to handle the demand. That's a common knowledge anyway."Any shortcomings are affordable for the provincial government.
Yes, but a) custom-made small cars will cost more to purchase, b) small cars will limit the capacity.
And c) the city will have re-hash the same subway vs LRT (vs some new technology?) debate 25 or 30 years from now, when the new SRT cars become old again.
Hence, my preference is to build the subway and be done with it. The funding is aligned right this time.
It's still more cost effective than spending 2 billion for the LRT.Refurbishing isn't cheap, either. Large new Mark cars will require a significant rebuild of the Ellesmere-Midland curve.
That's a fraction of the Sheppard Line even at about 50,000 per day.
Funding commitments exist, from the provincial, federal, and municipal governments. Any shortcomings are affordable for the provincial government. All three major political parties are on-board (NDP may be only reluctantly on board, but still).
Partial commitments exist; signals, rolling stock, etc. (roughly $2.5B IIRC) remain without funding commitments and for the timelines that have been discussed these are starting to become critical path items.
Either way, current provincial borrowing limits to maintain our credit rating + a recession will constrain choices. It'll take some very clever manoeuvring to sell Ontario conservatives on a GTA oriented capital program spending spree over something like an HST cut; and that's assuming Ford's first budget is balanced and not starting from a negative position.
I have no read on Ford at all; but other than Oosterhoff I've not seem much excitement over capital works for non-urban MPPs. I would be far more confident if Ford's first budget put ~$5B into a trust account under the cities control for this project.
Partial commitments exist; signals, rolling stock, etc. (roughly $2.5B IIRC) remain without funding commitments and for the timelines that have been discussed these are starting to become critical path items.
Either way, current provincial borrowing limits to maintain our credit rating + a recession will constrain choices. It'll take some very clever manoeuvring to sell Ontario conservatives on a GTA oriented capital program spending spree over something like an HST cut; and that's assuming Ford's first budget is balanced and not starting from a negative position.
I have no read on Ford at all; but other than Oosterhoff I've not seem much excitement over capital works for non-urban MPPs. I would be far more confident if Ford's first budget put ~$5B into a trust account under the cities control for this project.
So let's see...A Premier who campaigned on tax cuts, slashing the deficit and debt, not catering to "the elites"...and you think it likely that the Tooth Fairy is going to pledge to fund $Bs in extra costs, let alone the City's share, to build a subway when you yourself admit: "That just proves the LRT option has sufficient capacity, i.e. subway is not mandatory to handle the demand. That's a common knowledge anyway."
And the rest of the Province will accept that? OK...bring it on. lol...and the knives. The Palace Coup is arriving at Queen's Park Station before it's even scheduled.
Can you make it wait long enough for me to run out and get the popcorn?
I would prefer we don't make the same silly mistake New York did when they extended the Q up 2nd Avenue.They just don't want to build the new section with old signal system and then re-do together with the whole line, but technically they can do exactly that if they decide they can't afford the new signals.