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aquateam
Active Member
In Toronto, I think we might be a bit spoiled in thinking that a Spadina-distance transfer is particularly onerous or impractical. I've experienced much longer transfers in other cities (like Shanghai), where two lines would appear to be directly on top of each other from the system map but transfers involve long outdoor walks.
Although I shouldn't make too many excuses, because some of the planned connections aren't great (the new Barrie line connection to Lansdowne station isn't great, neither is UPX to Dundas West), and in the places where there could be a good connection (e.g. Oriole) they've elected to make it more difficult than it needs to be.
Caledonia station on the Eglinton LRT, or Downsview Park station on the TYSSE, should be models on how to connect between GO and TTC.
If there is a good connection between Eglinton/Guildwood GO stations and the Eglinton East LRT, it's possible that Lakeshore East might absorb a lot of the downtown-bound traffic that was meant for the SSE (along with SmartTrack).
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JSF-1
Active Member
On the topic of efficient transfers I wonder if we will ever see underground GO Lines and Stations. Electrification does open up the door for it and moving some stations closer to a TTC station does have an appeal, although obvious it would not be easy or cheap and I'm not holding my breath.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Does Spadina-Front under the Rail Deck Park count? As for others, I don't see it happening until there is no more capacity in the Union corridor. What I'd like to see, in the very far future, is an underground north-south GO line starting at Union up to maybe Highway 7. Much more useful than an Express Yonge Subway IMO.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I'm supportive of an RER tunnel through Downtown, likely under King Street, in similar vein to Crossrail. I continue to maintain that RER will be of limited relevance to commuters within Toronto until this tunnel exists, since Union Station is cumbersome to traverse and has a small pedestrian catchment radius. Nearly all of us will be dead before this project gets off the ground. It'll be a project for the next generation.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Perhaps they have no concept of ST because they can't figure out what the difference between ST & RER is. This could be presented to Tory as a way to differentiate RER & ST so he gets political credit for it. As for people wanting "subways, subways, subways" well again ST is a totally grade separated system so it IS a subway but seeing Torontonians have this odd notion that subways have to be underground, present it as a route similar to the Spadina line that follows the Allen at grade or thru tony Rosedale.
Presenting this to the politicians who are sceptical of the D/B extension would get them on board including those from Scar and especially the mayor. The best thing to do is present it to The Star, the G&B local, and The Sun {essential to get Scar to buy in} and some of the TV stations. Get the conversation going BEFORE the next civic election. It's one thing to bitch on forums like this and quite another to take action.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Conflating subways/rapid transit with RER is super disingenuous. Four trains an hour is not rapid transit, and it's not what people in Toronto expect from subway service. It's a good addition to the network, but it's not a subway
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
I would love this, it would solve a myriad of capacity issues.
JSF-1
Active Member
It would be nice to have stuff like this but we are obviously nowhere near capable of it at the moment. Like what you see in places like Japan.
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
RER may run at 15 minute intervals at the MINIMUM but I have never been under the impression that ST would. Even Tory thinks it will be every 10 minutes or better.
JSF-1
Active Member
Thing is Tory doesn't get a say in how the service will actually run. How it runs will be entirely dependent on how many trains the corridor can handle at any given time, and what service will be given priority. Also as an aside who is even going to operate ST? Is it going to be another GO Service operated by ML?, a TTC Line, or a completely new operator?
MisterF
Senior Member
^RER/Smarttrack as currently planned will run more frequently than every 15 minutes in the Stouffville corridor. Tory or no Tory.
That said, 15 minute frequencies don't eliminate a rail line from being rapid transit. Some subways operate less frequently than that. Atlanta for example. When RER is done right there's very little to distinguish it from a subway or any other form of rapid transit. Frequencies are just as high as Toronto's subway on many systems. RER as planned in Toronto will run more often than 15 minutes on the core network between Bramalea and Unionville.
The subway extension is supposed to cost well over $3 billion. That amount of money could buy you any frequency you want for an RER branch to Scarborough Town Centre, regardless of the current RER/Smarttrack plans.
That said, 15 minute frequencies don't eliminate a rail line from being rapid transit. Some subways operate less frequently than that. Atlanta for example. When RER is done right there's very little to distinguish it from a subway or any other form of rapid transit. Frequencies are just as high as Toronto's subway on many systems. RER as planned in Toronto will run more often than 15 minutes on the core network between Bramalea and Unionville.
Richard White
Senior Member
There is not nor is there an easy way to put one in as it is on a bridge.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
The Minatomirai line is its own subway in Yokohama, but the trains run into Tokyo by sharing track with JR (I know because I'd take the line all the time when I'd visit my grandparents).
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
$3 Billion would not get you anywhere near subway-like frequencies on an RER branch to STC. The upgrades necessary to enable that would be staggering. Rail corridors would need to be widened, grade separations would be necessary to eliminate conflict in train movements, Union Station would need to be massively reconfigured, likely with a tunnel running beneath it, signalling systems would probably need to be changed. This particular branch would probably need a new fleet of trains, more similar in size and design to the Toronto Rockets than the current GO fleet, because long, commuter-style trains aren't well suited for frequent subway-like service (because it takes them a significant amount of time to switch tracks).
I hate to poo poo the idea, but it's simply not realistic. We probably aren't ever going to see subway-like RER frequencies until we have an RER tunnel running through Downtown, in addition to a myriad of other auxiliary network upgrades.
Toronto isn't Atlanta. There are different service expectations in the two cities, for various reasons.
An example of RER done right is London's Crossrail. Toronto RER doesn't cut it. It's an improvement, yes, but it doesn't hold a candle to London's implementation. People in this city already get annoyed when they have to wait five minutes for a train. The fact that RER trains come 1/6th as often as the subway network is something that will certainly be noticed.
None of this is to say RER is bad (it's not), but it's potential is being greatly overstated by people on this forum.